George

George Galloway Senate Testimony (FULL)

.....from the UN's oil-for-food program in Iraq before a Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs subcommittee -- This is about 45 minutes.

Mr. Galloway, I'm pleased to have you before the committee today what I'm going to do is briefly summarise the evidence before, giving you a chance to I'll give you your sworn testimony the author food program was used as what those were favorable to Iraq or Meraki Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz and Iraqi vice president Taha yes in Ramadan confirmed this I would think that you would admit that your efforts to oppose the sanction were well-received by the regime I know it's been quoted you many many times but juror I would say infamous statement to Saddam Hussein and January 21st 1994 where he said to Saddam your excellency mr. president I greet you in the name of many thousands people in Britain who stood against the tide and opposed the war on aggression against Iraq continue to oppose the war by economic means which is aimed to strangle the light out of the great people life at the great people Iraq you then want to say agreed to name the Palestinian people you went on to note that I thought the president would appreciate knowing that even today three years after the war I still meet with families were calling the newborn son Saddam you went on ultimately at the very end to say sir I salute your courage your strength your indefatigable 'ti I want you to know that we are with you when I believe was in Arabic hotel Nassau hotel NASA alkyds which means until victory until victory in Jerusalem and I also would note that you have sated that you deeply regret those comments and that the the comments were not aimed directly at Saddam but they were aimed at the Iraqi people in the fall of 1999 you headed a two-month London to Baghdad bus trip to gain support for lifting the sanctions on Iraq we have your name on Iraqi documents some thread for the fall of Saddam some after that identify you as one of the allocation holders their allocations were then used by Fawaz Zurich had operations on operating under the name of Rhydian petroleum and Middle East advanced semiconductor to actually lift the oil we know - based on the statements of for Morocco fischels as well as some documents and in the cases of Vladimir Zhirinovsky Noggs and avulsion correspondence and documents that allocation holders knew that surcharges or oil allocations would pay to Saddam Hussein and that allocation holders were aware of this responsible for the payments we've also heard testimony regarding several documents retrieve from the Iraqi oil oil ministry a recommend astrium oil they demonstrate how Iraqi Iraq allocated oil to its friends and allies accepted thirteen which you've seen displayed a so much shot that demonstrated Vladimir Zhirinovsky is dealing with Moschino important phase eleven that chart also lists contract M 1104 with Middle East advanced semiconductor footnote 93 her testimony regarding assemble commercial invoice dated June 27 2002 that shows Middle East semiconductor loaded two million three hundred sixty thousand eight hundred sixty barrels of rocky crude oil pursuant to some old food oil sales contract M 1104 exhibit 12 we heard testimony regarding correspondence from the executive director of somos to the Iraqi oil minister providing details of contract M 1104 and listing your name in parentheses next to Middle East advanced semiconductor infer was zurich ott who we know lifted the oil against statements of detainees including former vice president ramadan confirmed that the name in parentheses your name is the allocation holder we were testimony regarding contract m 1104 which was signed on december 12th 2001 between somos and Fawaz erick had president of middle-east advanced semiconductor which estimate regarding somos commercial invoice b 213 201 that shows iridium petroleum lifted 1 million fourteen thousand four hundred three barrels of rocky oil pursuant to some oak crude oil sales contract m 923 exhibit 45 for testimony regarding somos shot entitled crude oil allocations during phase nine of the memorandum of understanding the dedicates contract M 923 was executed between somos Mustafa öz ellicott / George Galloway / Iridium petroleum exhibit nine we also heard testimony regarding a memo from the executive director of somos to the oil Minister requesting approval of contract M 923 the document includes an official Ministry of oil stamp dated 115 201 and provides details of contract M 923 signed with the Rhydian petroleum company parens for was Erick at - Miriam's appeal indicated the allocation recipient for contract M 9 - 3 was for was Erick at Miriam's Appeal mr. Galloway has indicated my opening statement this is not a court of law this can be they simply made available information obtained during the investigation from interviews of former Iraqi officials as well as Iraqi documents that lay out how the oil-for-food program worked how allocations were given to favored friends allocation holders made substantial Commission's on those allocations to oil companies but Ramadan called compensation for support but another official when talking about another allocation holder said costs they made a profit that's the whole point surcharges and oil contracts were given back to the Saddam regime with the responsibility of the allocation holder the evidence and clearly identifies you as an allocation beneficiary to transfer the allocations to Fawaz ERCOT who became chairman of your organization Miriam's appeal bill senior Iraqi officials have confirmed that you in fact received oil allocations and that the documents that identify you as an allocation recipient are valid if you can help provide any evidence that challenges the veracity of these documents or the statements of former IKEA fischels we'd welcome that input mr. Galloway you were appearing before the subcommittee without asserting any privilege or immunity indeed your appearance before the subcommittee is entirely voluntary and on your own accord no subpoena was issued to secure your parents we're appearing before the subcommittee concerning matters that do not arise out of the performance of any of your official duties as a member of the British Parliament but instead concerned actions taken by you and your capacity as a private citizen before we begin pursuant to rule 6 all witnesses who testify before the subcommittee are required to be sworn this time were to ask you to rise and please raise your right hand you swear the testimony you're about to give before the subcommittee is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God we will be using a timing system today mr. Galloway we have 10 minutes for opening statement if you need more time we'll certainly accommodate that and you may proceed

Senator -- I am not now nor have I ever been an oil trader; and neither has anyone on my behalf -- I have never seen a bottle of oil owned one bought one sold one and neither has anybody on my behalf. 

Now I know that standards have slipped over the last few years in Washington but for A Lawyer you're remarkably cavalier with any idea of Justice. 

I'm here today but last week you already found me guilty you traduced my name around the world without ever having asked me a single question without ever having contacted me without ever having written to me or telephoned me without any contact with me whatsoever and you call that justice now I want to deal with the pages that relate to me in this dossier and I want to point out areas where there are let's be charitable and say errors and then I want to put this in the context that I believe it ought to be on the very first page of your document about me you assert that I have had many meetings with Saddam Hussein this is false I have had two meetings with Saddam Hussein once in 1994 and once in August of 2002 by no stretch of the English language can that be described as many meetings with Saddam Hussein. 

As a matter of fact I've met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld met him the differences Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns. 

I met him to try and bring about an end to sanctions suffering and War, and on the second of the two occasions I met him to try and persuade him to allow Dr. Hans Blix and the United Nations weapons inspectors back into the country a rather better use of two meetings with Saddam Hussein than your own Secretary of State for Defence. 

made of his in the same opening paragraph you assert that I was an outspoken supporter of the Hussein regime this is false I have brought along here a dossier ador CA for all the members of your committee of statements by me as late -- as early rather as the 15th of March 1990 in which I condemn the Saddam Hussein dictatorship in the most withering terms a stance I have taken since around about the time you were an anti-vietnam war demonstrator I was an opponent of Saddam Hussein when British and American governments and businessmen were selling him guns and gas I used to demonstrate outside the Iraqi embassy when British and American officials were going in and out doing commerce you will see from the official parliamentary record Hansard from the 15th of March 1990 onwards voluminous evidence that I have a rather better record of opposition to Saddam Hussein than you do and then any member of the British or American governments do now you say in this document you quote a source you have the goal to quote a source without ever having asked me if the allegation from the source was true that I am quote the owner of a company which has made substantial profits from trading in Iraqi oil senator I do not own any companies beyond a small company whose entire purpose whose sole purpose is to receive the income from my journalistic earnings from my employer associated newspapers in London I not own a company that's been trading in Iraqi oil and you had no business to carry a quotation uh duh lay unsubstantiated and false implying otherwise now you have nothing on me senator except my name on lists of names from Iraq many of which have been drawn up after the installation of your puppet government in Baghdad if you had any of the letters against me that you had against Iran offski and even Pasqua they would have been up there in your slideshow for the members of your committee today you have my name on lists provided to you by the dolfe our inquiry provided to him by the convicted bank robber and fraudster and conman Ahmed Chalabi who many people to their credit in your country now realize played a decisive role in leading your country into the disaster in Iraq there were 270 names on that list originally that somehow been fileted down to the names you chose to deal with in this committee some of the names on that committee included the former Secretary to His Holiness Pope John Paul the second the former head of the African National Congress presidential office and many others who had one defining characteristic in common they all stood against the policy of sanctions and war which you vociferously prosecuted and which has led us to this disaster you caught mr. Taha Yasin Ramadan well you have something on me I've never met mr. Taha Yasin Ramadan your subcommittee apparently has but I do know that he's your prisoner I believe he's an Abu Ghraib prison I believe he's facing war crimes charges punishable by death in these circumstances knowing what the world knows about how you treat prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison in Bagram airbase in Guantanamo Bay including him I may say British citizens being held in those places I'm not sure how much credibility anyone would put on anything you managed to get from a prisoner in those circumstances but you quote 13 words from Taha us in Ramadan whom I have never met if he said what he said then he is wrong and if you had any evidence that I had ever engaged in any actual oil transaction if you had any evidence that anybody ever gave me any money it would be before the public and before this commitment today because I agreed with your mr. Greenblatt your mr. green block was absolutely correct what counts is not the names on the paper what counts is where's the money senator who paid me hundreds of thousands of dollars of money the answer to that is nobody and if you had anybody who ever paid me a penny you would have produced them here today now you refer at length to a company named in these documents as a radio petroleum I say to you under oath here today I have never heard of this company I have never met anyone from this company this company has never paid a penny to me and I'll tell you something else I can assure you that a radio petroleum has never paid a single penny to the Maruyama Peele campaign not a thin dime I don't know who a radio petroleum are but I dare say if you were to ask them they would confirm that they have never met me or ever paid me a penny whilst I'm on that subject who is this senior former regime official that you spoke to yesterday don't you think I have a right to know don't you think the committee and the public have a right to know who this senior former regime official you were quoting against me interviewed yesterday actually is now one of the most serious of the mistakes that you have made in this set of documents is to be frank such a schoolboy howler as to make a fool of the efforts that you have made you assert on page 19 not once but twice that the documents that you're referring to cover a different period in time from the documents covered by the Daily Telegraph which were the subject of a libel action one by me in the High Court in England late last year you state that The Daily Telegraph article cited documents from 1992 and 1993 who else you are dealing with documents dating from 2001 senator the Daily Telegraph's documents date identically to the documents that you are dealing with in your report here none of the Daily Telegraph's documents dealt with a period of 1990 to 1993 I had never set foot in Iraq until late in 1993 never in my life there could possibly be no documents relating to oil-for-food matters in 1990 to 93 for the oil-for-food scheme did not exist at that time and yet you've allocated a full section of this document to claiming that your documents are from a different era to the Daily Telegraph documents when the opposite is true your documents and the Daily Telegraph documents deal with exactly the same period but perhaps you were confusing the Daily Telegraph action with the Christian Science Monitor the Christian Science Monitor did indeed publish on its front pages a set of allegations against me very similar to the ones that your committee have made they did indeed rely on documents which started in 1992-1993 these documents were unmasked by the Christian Science Monitor themselves as forgeries now the neocon websites and newspapers in which you're such a hero senator were all absolutely cock-a-hoop at the publication of the Christian Science Monitor documents they were all absolutely convinced of their authenticity they were all absolutely convinced that these documents showed me receiving 10 million dollars from the Saddam Hussein regime and they were all lies in the same week as the Daily Telegraph published their documents against me the Christian Science Monitor published theirs which turned out to be forgeries and the British newspaper mill on Sunday purchased a third set of documents which also on forensic examination turned out to be forgeries so there's nothing fanciful about this nothing at all fanciful about it the existence of forged documents implicating me in commercial activities with the Iraqi regime is a proven fact it's a proven fact that these forged documents existed and were being circulated amongst right-wing newspapers in Baghdad and around the world in the immediate aftermath of the fall of the Iraqi regime now senator I gave my heart and soul to oppose the policy that you promoted I gave my political life's blood to try to stop the mass killing of Iraqis by the sanctions on Iraq which killed a million Iraqis most of them children most of them died before they even knew that they were Iraqis but they died for no other reason other than that they were Iraqis with the misfortune to be born at that time I gave my heart and soul to stop you committing the disaster that you did commit in invading Iraq and I told the world that your case for the war was a pack of lies I told the world that Iraq contrary to your claims did not have weapons of mass destruction I told the world contrary to your claims that Iraq had no connection to al-qaeda I told the world contrary to your claims that Iraq had no connection to the atrocity on 9/11 2001 I told the world contrary to your claims that the Iraqi people would resist a British and American invasion of their country and that the fall of Baghdad would not be the beginning of the end but merely the end of the beginning senator in everything I said about Iraq I turned out to be right and you turned out to be wrong and a hundred thousand people have paid with their lives 1,600 of them American soldiers sent to their deaths on a pack of lies 15,000 of them wounded many of them disabled forever on a pack of lies if the world had listened to Kofi Annan whose dismissal you demanded if the world had listened to President Chirac who you want to paint some kind of corrupt traitor the world had listened to me and the anti-war movement in Britain we would not be in the disaster that we are in today senator this is the mother of all smoke screens you are trying to divert attention from the crimes that you supported from the theft of billions of dollars of Iraq's wealth have a look at the real oil-for-food scandal have a look at the 14 months you were in charge of Baghdad the first 14 months when 8.8 billion dollars of Iraq's wealth went missing on your watch have a look at Halliburton and the other American corporations that stole not only Iraq's money but the money of the American taxpayer have a look at the oil that you didn't even meet her that you were shipping out of the country and selling the proceeds of which went who-knows-where have a look at the 800 million dollars you gave to American military commanders to hand out around the country without even counting it or weighing it have a look at the real scandal breaking in the newspapers today revealed in the earlier testimony in this committee that the biggest sanctions Busters were not me or Russian politicians or French politicians the real sanctions Busters were your own companies with the connivance of your own government thank mr. Galloway Scalia like start by talking about Farr was a zircon did you know the individual I don't very well in fact you were best man at his wedding I was and at some point in time he became chair of Merriman's appeals that correct I did yeah and can you tell me when that occurred I think in late 2000 or 2001 before mr. Zurich at was chair of Moran's Co who who had that position I was the founding chairman was there somebody in between um mr. Alford and you recall when he had that position I don't mr. Zarra Cod was a significant contributor to Miriam Sapiro correct he was the biggest contributor the main contributor was sheikh zayed the ruler of the united arab emirates which you've glossed over in your report because it's slightly embarrassing to you and the third major contributor was the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia which you've equally glossed over because it's embarrassing to you and how much both of those individuals are your friends how much did mr. Zarek aid contribute to Merriam's appeal roughly three hundred and seventy-five thousand English pounds at about six hundred thousand dollars American well I don't know the conversion but it's three hundred and seventy-five thousand sterling uh if you can and he was by the way mr. mr. zark it was your representative designated representative for the activity of Mira Mesa pills are correct for the activities of the morning appeal yes of the money what bill yes and when did he get that position I think late 2000 late 2000 looking at exhibit nine exhibit nine and I think you have the books in front yeah that appears to be a document for the Ministry of oil testimony has indicated that the signature is an accurate signature do you have any reason to believe that documents false well I've told you that I have never held a variety of petroleum and I've told you that the Miriam appeal never received a single penny from a radio petroleum so the information at the top of the page if you have translated accurately is false have you heard of Middle East Middle East a si company yes that's mr. Zurich arts company can I turn to exhibit 12 twelve of them yep twelve yep and that purports to be a again he stamped the seal of the Ministry of oil people of Iraq and this what's to be a shown the details of a contract sign with Middle East ASI company George Galloway and for was our cat so in Middle East ASI is mrs. Arquette's company Middle East ASI is mr. szura cats company he may well have signed an oil contract it had nothing to do with me I did you he was a chair of Miriam's appeal and in 2000 so I take it you knew him well did he ever talk to you about his dealings in in oil with Iraq he did better than not he talked to everybody he talked to every English journalist that came through Baghdad who he helped our request to get the interviews and get the places that they wanted and needed to go he was introduced to everyone as a major benefactor of the Merriam appeal and as a businessman doing extensive business in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East I'm asking you specifically in 2001 did you were you aware that he was doing oil deals with Iraq I was aware that he was doing extensive business with Iraq I did not know the details of it was not my business so this is somebody who's the chairman of your committee that you know well on you and you you're not able to say that he was well there's a lot of contributors I've just been checking to you or there's not many in that level mr. Gallow no let me I've checked your website but there are lots of contributors to your political campaign funds I don't suppose you ask any of them how they made the money they give you certainly not at $600,000 American but let me again ask the quote I just the record is clear I need to be clear in the record that you're not contesting than the validity of document twelve exhibit 12 you're indicating that mr. zark had could have had dealings with Iraq but you're saying that at that point in time you were not aware well he had oil dealings with us well I've only seen this document today and I'm telling you that insofar as my name is in a parenthesis the information in it as false I have no reason to believe mr. Zurich arts company did not do that particular oil deal but this is your problem in this whole affair there is nobody arguing that mr. Zuri cats company did not do oil transactions and many other much bigger frankly business contracts with Iraq there's nobody contesting the mr. Zurich up made substantial donations to our campaign against sanctions on war my point is you have accused me personally of enriching myself of taking money from Iraq and that is false and unjust mr. Galloway do you recall in interview head with the Jeremy Paxman in April 23 2003 well we have a copy of the transcript of that I'd like to refresh your memory we get a copy of that as we get you a copy I'm going to ask you were asked the question talking about business dealings with mr. Zarra cot in Iraq and at least the transcript that I have and I'd like you to let me know if it's incorrect your quote is have asked him about business and quote while I'm trying to reach him this is in 2003 I'm trying to reach him to ask him if he's ever been involved in oil deals because I don't know the answer to that so in 2003 you're saying you don't know the answer whether involved in oil deals well I told you in my previous two answers I knew that mr. Zurich OTT was heavily involved in business in Iraq and elsewhere but that it was none of my business what particular transactions or business he was involved in any more than you asked the American Israel Public Affairs Committee when they donate money to you or pay for your trips to Israel well they got the money from so mr. Galloway you would have this committee believe that he's designated representative for Marion's appeal becomes a chair of the Mirren's appeal was listed in Iraqi documents is obviously doing business oil deals of the rack that you never had a conversation with him in 2001 or whether he was ever doing oil business with Iraq no I'm doing better than that I'm telling you that I knew that he was doing a vast amount of business with Iraq much bigger as I said a couple of answers ago than any oil business he did in the airport he was the representative of some of the world's biggest companies in Iraq he was an extremely wealthy business man doing very extensive business in Iraq not only did I know that but I told everyone about it I am blazing dirt in our literature on our website precisely so that people like you could not later credibly question my bona fides in that regard so I did better than that but I never asked him if he was trading in oil I knew he was a big trader with Iraq and I told everybody about it so in 2003 when you said you didn't know whether he was doing oil deals we told the truth at that time yes I was I've never known until the Telegraph story appeared that he was alleged to be doing oil deals but his oil deals are about 1/10 of the business that he did in Iraq so I did better than telling people about his oil deals I told them he was doing much much more than that so exhibit 14 which purports to be a contract with Middle East semiconductor contract M 1214 middlee semiconductor again is mrs. Arquette's companies are correct listed so you have any reason any reason to believe that this document is is false well the parentheses if the parentheses implies as you've been arguing all morning that implies that this was being signed for by Middle East advanced semiconductors in order to pass the money on to me is false mr. Zurich at and Middle East semiconductors or any other company have never given me any money and if they had you would have up here on a board and in front of the committee here I take it mr. Galloway that in regard to any surcharges paid to Saddam and I think it's footnote 89 which refers to the the surcharge for the contract focused on Miriam's appeal you're saying that that document first of all in any any contract between Iraq and variants appeals is a false well senator I'd gotten used to the allegation that I was taking money from Saddam Hussein it's it's it's actually surreal to hear in this room this morning that I'm being accused of giving money to Saddam Hussein this is utterly preposterous utterly preposterous that I gave $300,000 to Saddam Hussein this is beyond the realms of the ridiculous no the Maryam Appeals finances have been investigated by the Charity Commission on the order of Lord Goldsmith you'll recall him senator he's the Attorney General practically the only law man in the world that thought your war with Iraq was legal thought Britain join in your war with Iraq was legal he ordered the Charity Commission to investigate the Maryam appeal using their statutory powers they recovered all money in and all money out ever received or spent by the Maryam appeal they found no impropriety and I can assure you they found no money from an oil contract from a radial Petroleum none whatsoever and the the Commission did not look at these documents relating to this contract with Iraq so but they looked better than that senator I'm not asking that I'm asking the question with all this looked at these documents senator you're not listening to what I'm saying they did better than that they look to every penny in and every penny out and they did not find I can assure you any trace of a donation from a company called a radial petroleum or frankly a donation from any company other than mr. Zurich arts company that's a fact if I can get back to mr. szura got one more time do you recall a time when he specifically when you speak that a conversation with him about oil dealings in Iraq I've already answered that question I can assure you mr. Zhu rakaat never gave me a penny from an oil deal from a cake deal from a bread deal or from any deal he donated money to our campaign which we publicly brandished on all of our literature along with the other donors to the campaign again mr. Galloway a simple question I'm looking for a either a yes or no do you ever have conversation with this Erica were inform you that he had oil dealings with Iraq yes or no not before this Daily Telegraph report no senator Levin thank you thank you mr. Galloway mr. Galloway could you take a look at the exhibit number 12 yep where your name is in parentheses after mr. szura cots before mr. Zorica if I'm looking at the right I was going to finish my sentence my question was where your name is in parentheses after mr. szura cots companies I apologize senator now that document assuming it's of accurate translation of the document underneath it would you say you're not alleging here today that the document is a forgery I gather well I have no idea of sanitary that's a forgery on it but you're not elect I'm saying that the information insofar as it relates to me is fake andrew is wrong it's wrong but you're not alleging that the document well I have no way of knowing so that's fine so you're not a legend alive no way of no way of knowing this is it fair to say since you don't know well you're not alleged you'd have been nice to have seen it before today now is it fair to say though that either because you've not seen it before or because because otherwise you don't know you're not alleging the documents of faked is that that fair to say I haven't had it in my possession long enough to form a view about that would you let the subcommittee know after you've had it in your possession long enough whether you consider the document of yeah although there's a there is an academic quality about to all senator Levin because you've already found me guilty before you before you actually allowed me to come here and speak for myself well in order to attempt to clear your name would you Lilla let's be clear about something so let me finish my question let me be clear about that first of all would you submit to the subcommittee after you've had a chance to review this document whether or not in your judgment it is a forgery will you do that well if you'll give me the original I mean this is not presumably you wrote this English translation yes if there's a copy underneath it yes there is a copy of a gray blur if you will me if you'll give me their happy of the original you'll give me the original and a decipherable way then of course that's that be fine we appreciate that yeah now if at the bottom of this document assuming it's it's zooming it's not a forgery for a moment it says surcharge are we together yeah as per the instructions of your excellency over the phone on 12 1101 of not accepting the company's proposals unless they pay the debt incurred since phase 8 if in fact if in fact mr. szura cots company paid a surcharge or a kickback to the iraqi government in order to obtain an allocation of what would that trouble you well it turns out from your own testimony the practically everyone in the world and especially the United States was paying kickbacks my question it troubles me a great deal yes you've heard my from my from my statement today I'm very much troubled that we have an oil company that was involved in this and we're going to go after that oil company now let me ask you I've expressed my view above the oil so now let me ask you about mr. szura COTS company if in fact mr. szura COTS company paid a kickback to the iraqi government in order to obtain this allocation would you be trouble that's my question yeah it's a good question and will you appreciate you will you allow me to answer to yes seriously not in a yes or no fashion because I could give you our glib writing you give us an answer I'd be delighted to hear it here's my answer and I hope it does delight you I opposed the oil-for-food program with all my heart not for the reasons that you are troubled by it but because it was a program which saw the death I'm talking about the death now I'm talking about a mass grave of a million people most of them children in Iraq the oil-for-food program gave 30 cents per day per Iraqi for the period of the oil-for-food program 30 cents for all food all medicine all clothes all schools all hospitals all public services I believe that the United Nations had no right to starve Iraq's people because it had fallen out with Iraq's dictator David Bonior your former colleague senator whom I admired very much a former Chief Whip here on the hill described the sanctions policy as infanticide masquerading as politics senator Coleman thinks that's funny but I think it's the most profound description of that era that I have ever read infanticide masquerading as politics so I opposed this program with all my heart not because Saddam was getting kickbacks from it and I don't know when it's alleged these kickbacks started not because some individuals were getting rich doing business with Iraq under it but because it was a murderous policy of killing huge numbers of Iraqis that's what troubles me that's what troubles me know if you're asking me that is mr. szura cut in some difficulty like all the other companies that it would appear paid kickbacks to the iraqi regime no doubt is although it would appear he's quite small beer compared to the american companies who were involved in the same thing now my question that's what I told you what troubles me and I'm not asking you I'm a soldier I put in trouble my question now now that you've given us your your again your your statement about your feeling about the oil-for-food program my question is would you be troubled if you knew that mr. zurakov paid a kickback in order to get an allocation of an oil country that's a very simple question it's mr. szura cots problem not mine it would not trouble you mr. szura cots problem not mine and so that if it if a kickback which was illegal under international and now you may not agree with the UN but that's the international community that you're attacking which is fine you're entitled to do that you're entitled and I'll defend your right to do it but you're attacking a UN program which was your right to do which was aimed at providing humanitarian assistance to try to alleviate the problems that the sanctions provided which is your right to do but my question which you are so far evading is would you be troubled if that UN oil-for-food program was being circumvented by the kind of kickback which were taking place and being given to Saddam Hussein in order to obtain allocations under that program if mr. szura cought participated in that kickback scheme which violated the UN saying you may not have agreed with it that it violated the program would it trouble you if he violated that UN program in that way that's my question senator there are many things I know other things trouble you but can you just give us a straightforward answer you give it us a long explanation well other things that trouble you which is your right now I'm asking you whether that troubles you it troubles me that it might put him in difficulty it troubles me that it might no lead to a prosecution of him it troubles me that this will be father smoke in the smoke screen but I root and branch opposed this understand all for food probe's a lot of things you oppose but you don't believe should be circumvented in illegal ways now please senator you supported the illegal attack on Iraq don't talk to me about illegal re about that I didn't but that's beside the ball that's beside the point Iran and your facts I'm collectively you're Hawking about the Senate not you personally that's okay sorry let me go back to my question I don't want to get oh I don't want to get broad I don't want to get involved why not you want to talk about illegality no you launched an illegal war which has killed a hundred thousand let's try you want me to be troubled about no I want you to answer I want you to answer questions which are fairly put and directly part of you now I'll ask you one last quite two last questions if if mr. szura cots contributions to miriam's appeal came from the sale of oil or his share of a sale from oil which he was able to obtain because he paid a kickback in violation of the UN program with that contribution trouble you that's my quite senator if you can't give a short answer I'll give a short as I can and I appreciate your fairness and this fundraising for political purposes is pretty as any American politician could testify I took the view I can be criticized for it have been criticized for it that I would fundraise from the kings of Arabia whose political systems I have opposed all my life in order to raise funds for what I thought was an emergency facing a disaster and I did not ask mr. jurika which part of his profits from his entire business empire he was making donations to her that wasn't my question my question is would it no my question is would it trouble you if you found that out and yeah it's okay you're not gonna answer it its core to me I want to go to my next call right you're just simply not going answer I will say American politicians who find the source of money after it's given to them is troubling when they find out something they didn't know afterwards frequently well and hopefully I think always but at least frequently will return that money will say they disagree with the source of the money hopefully all of us will do that but whether or not we all live up to that standard you clearly do not adopt that as a standard for contributions to Miriam's appeal you're not going to look at the source of the money you're just simply going to accept the money and you've made that clear 

I wanted us to ask you about Tariq Aziz 

yeah

Tariq Aziz you've indicated you you who you didn't talk to and who you did talk to did you have conversations with Tariq Aziz about the award of oil allocations that's Mike whatever thank you I'm done think just one vote on the Tariq Aziz question how often describe your relationship with Rick Aziz friendly how often did you meet him many times you have can you give an estimate to that no many times he said well the many times more than five yes yes more than ten yes is it 15 around 15 well we're getting nearer but I haven't ever counted but many times I mean you have things I'm saying to you many times and I'm saying - I was friendly with him you described as a very dear friend I think you've quoted me of saying a dear dear friend I don't often use the double adjectives but I was looking into your heart on that the friend I have no problem with senator just before you go on I do hope you'll avail yourself of this dossier that I have produced I'm really speaking through you to Senator 11 this is what I've said about Saddam Hussein we will enter that into the recognizer with without objection I have no further questions for the witness you're excused miss Kelly thank you very much take a look at this either and reset sir a boat looks like either a vote or a reset we have a we have a vote the the hearing will be recessed when what that will be recess for 20 minutes coming up next a house hearing on management and budget issues at the United Nations then at 6:00 a.m. it's Q&A with White House budget director Josh Bolten live at 7:00 Washington Journal devotes today's three-hour program to the No Child Left Behind Act and how states are implementing the law's requirements and standards