MLK Day

Evidence of Revision - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. 

from Spike EP on Vimeo.

"Now — but today is January 15th, it is Martin Luther King's birthday.

Now I'll start with a very famous passage. It's not usually the passage you hear from the "I Have A Dream" speech. Almost always when the Dream speech is quoted — and now it's quoted in commercials, right? Numerous times, or on radio spots, background. King's voice, as though it's some kind of American chorus for whatever- when, at any moment we need to feel better about ourselves and about race relations. We often just skip right over the first two or three paragraphs of the speech where the central metaphor he sets up in the speech is what he called "the promissory note," in the "bank of justice."

"I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation. And so we have come here." Excuse me. "Five score years ago" — and here he is drawing directly off Lincoln — "five score years ago a great American in whose symbolic shadow we stand today signed the Emancipation Proclamation." 

This was of course August 1963. A hot, a brutally hot August day, King on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. 

"This momentous decree came as a great beacon, light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak," he says, "to end the long night of their captivity." That sentence is almost directly from the Bible. 

"But one hundred years later the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty, in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later the Negro is still languished in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition. In a sense we've come here, we've come to our nation's capital, to cash a check. When the architects of our Republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked 'insufficient funds.' But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt, we refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. And so we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us, upon demand, the riches of freedom and the security of justice."

I would be thrilled if you walked out of this course and were able to explain to somebody why King made the promissory note the central metaphor of his "I Have a Dream" speech, and you could somehow explain why it hadn't been cashed by 1963, and could then begin to discuss whether it's fully cashed yet. "

Judas 

from Spike EP on Vimeo.

The Promisory Note Speech 

from Spike EP on Vimeo.

March on Washington, DC, August 28, 1963

I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.

Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.

But one hundred years later, the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.

In a sense we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check — a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. 

We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now.

Hollywood Acredits the Memes : Billie Kyles - The Witness in Room 306 

from Spike EP on Vimeo.

"Because you know, it was a dum-dum bullet...." 

- The Liar Rev. Billie Kyles

"Philip Mellanson, a professor and author, testified that Memphis Police Inspector Sam Evans, now deceased, told him that he ordered tactical units away from the Lorraine at the request of a specific "Memphis Minister" associated with Dr. King, whom he named.(89) In addition, other witnesses testified about their belief that the eviction of the Invaders, a group of young Memphis, African American activists, from their room at the Lorraine minutes before the shooting facilitated the assassination. One former Invader, Charles Cabbage, testified that he was told that another minister, the "SCLC Minister," a ranking member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, ordered that his group be immediately ejected.


We found nothing to support Mellanson's hearsay account that the "Memphis Minister" was the specific source of the request to remove tactical units. When we interviewed the "Memphis Minister," he denied ever making such a request. Moreover, the fact that TACT Unit 10 remained in the vicinity across the street at the fire station undermines the inference that the "Memphis Minister" conspired with law enforcement.

Likewise, nothing supports a conclusion that the eviction of the Invaders from the Lorraine, allegedly at the direction of the "SCLC Minister," is related to the assassination. We found no evidence that the Invaders had anything to do with Dr. King's security. Rather, according to associates of Dr. King and former Memphis police officers, the Invaders were young, African American activists who were attempting to associate with Dr. King. Accordingly, even if the Invaders were evicted from the Lorraine by the "SCLC Minister" or some other SCLC staff person, such action would not have diminished Dr. King's security.

Inside Story - Who Killed Martin Luther King 

from Spike EP on Vimeo.

Martin Luther King Is Slain in Memphis; A White Is Suspected; Johnson Urges Calm

---

---

Guard Called Out

---

Curfew Is Ordered in Memphis, but Fires and Looting Erupt

By Earl Caldwell

Special to The New York Times

RELATED HEADLINES Scattered Violence Occurs In Harlem and Brooklyn: 12 Are Arrested Here: Widespread Disorders President's Plea: On TV, He Deplores 'Brutal' Murder of Negro Leader Dismay in Nation:Negroes Urge Others to Carry on Spirit of Nonviolence OTHER HEADLINES Johnson Delays Trip to Hawaii; May Leave Today:President Spends a Hectic Day Here and in Capital -- Sees Thant at the U.N. Hanoi Charges U.S. Raid Far North of 20th Parallel Humphrey Hints He'll Enter Race:Tells Unionists in Pittsburgh He Will Act Soon -- Abel and Wirtz Back Him Johnson Shuns Role of '68 'Lame Duck,' Kennedy Was Told Archbishop Cooke Installed; President Looks On

Memphis, Friday, April 5 -- The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who preached nonviolence and racial brotherhood, was fatally shot here last night by a distant gunman who raced away and escaped.

Four thousand National Guard troops were ordered into Memphis by Gov. Buford Ellington after the 39-year-old Nobel Prize-winning civil rights leader died.

A curfew was imposed on the shocked city of 550,000 inhabitants, 40 per cent of whom are Negro.

But the police said the tragedy had been followed by incidents that included sporadic shooting, fires, bricks and bottles thrown at policemen, and looting that started in Negro districts and then spread over the city.

White Car Sought

Police Director Frank Holloman said the assassin might have been a white man who was "50 to 100 yards away in a flophouse."

Chief of Detectives W.P. Huston said a late model white Mustang was believed to have been the killer's getaway car. Its occupant was described as a bareheaded white man in his 30's, wearing a black suit and black tie.

The detective chief said the police had chased two cars near the motel where Dr. King was shot and had halted one that had two out-of-town men as occupants. The men were questioned but seemed to have nothing to do with the killing, he said.

Rifle Found Nearby

A high-powered 30.06-caliber rifle was found about a block from the scene of the shooting, on South Main Street. "We think it's the gun," Chief Huston said, reporting it would be turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Dr. King was shot while he leaned over a second-floor railing outside his room at the Lorraine Motel. He was chatting with two friends just before starting for dinner.

One of the friends was a musician, and Dr. King had just asked him to play a Negro spiritual, "Precious Lord, Take My Hand," at a rally that was to have been held two hours later in support of striking Memphis sanitation men.

Paul Hess, assistant administrator at St. Joseph's Hospital, where Dr. King died despite emergency surgery, said the minister had "received a gunshot wound on the right side of the neck, at the root of the neck, a gaping wound."

"He was pronounced dead at 7:05 P.M. Central standard time (8:05 P.M. New York time) by staff doctors," Mr. Hess said. "They did everything humanly possible."

Dr. King's mourning associates sought to calm the people they met by recalling his messages of peace, but there was widespread concern by law enforcement officers here and elsewhere over potential reactions.

In a television broadcast after the curfew was ordered here, Mr. Holloman said, "rioting has broken out in parts of the city" and "looting is rampant."

Dr. King had come back to Memphis Wednesday morning to organize support once again for 1,300 sanitation workers who have been striking since Lincoln's Birthday. Just a week ago yesterday he led a march in the strikers' cause that ended in violence. A 16-year-old Negro was killed, 62 persons were injured and 200 were arrested.

Yesterday Dr. King had been in his second-floor room- Number 306- throughout the day. Just about 6 P.M. he emerged, wearing a silkish-looking black suit and white shirt.

Solomon Jones Jr., his driver, had been waiting to take him by car to the home of the Rev. Samuel Kyles of Memphis for dinner. Mr. Jones said later he had observed, "It's cold outside, put your topcoat on," and Dr. King had replied, "O.K., I will."

Two Men in Courtyard

Dr. King, an open-faced, genial man, leaned over a green iron railing to chat with an associate, Jesse Jackson, standing just below him in a courtyard parking lot:

"Do you know Ben?" Mr. Jackson asked, introducing Ben Branch of Chicago, a musician who was to play at the night's rally.

"Yes, that's my man!" Dr. King glowed.

The two men recalled Dr. King's asking for the playing of the spiritual. "I really want you to play that tonight," Dr. King said, enthusiastically.

The Rev. Ralph W. Abernathy, perhaps Dr. King's closest friend, was just about to come out of the motel room when the sudden loud noise burst out.

Dr. King toppled to the concrete second-floor walkway. Blood gushed from the right jaw and neck area. His necktie had been ripped off by the blast.

"He had just bent over," Mr. Jackson recalled later. "If he had been standing up, he wouldn't have been hit in the face.

Policemen 'All Over'

"When I turned around," Mr. Jackson went on, bitterly, "I saw police coming from everywhere. They said, 'where did it come from?' And I said, 'behind you.' The police were coming from where the shot came."

Mr. Branch asserted that the shot had come from "the hill on the other side of the street."

"When I looked up, the police and the sheriff's deputies were running all around," Mr. Branch declared.

"We didn't need to call the police," Mr. Jackson said. "They were here all over the place."

Mr. Kyles said Dr. King had stood in the open "about three minutes."

Mr. Jones, the driver, said that a squad car with four policemen in it drove down the street only moments before the gunshot. The police had been circulating throughout the motel area on precautionary patrols.

After the shot, Mr. Jones said, he saw a man "with something white on his face" creep away from a thicket across the street.

Someone rushed up with a towel to stem the flow of Dr. King's blood. Mr. Kyles said he put a blanket over Dr. King, but "I knew he was gone." He ran down the stairs and tried to telephone from the motel office for an ambulance.

Mr. Abernathy hurried up with a second larger towel.

Police With Helmets

Policemen were pouring into the motel area, carrying rifles and shotguns and wearing helmets.

But the King aides said it seemed to be 10 or 15 minutes before a Fire Department ambulance arrived.

Dr. King was apparently still living when he reached the St. Joseph's Hospital operating room for emergency surgery. He was borne in on a stretcher, the bloody towel over his head.

It was the same emergency room to which James H. Meredith, first Negro enrolled at the University of Mississippi, was taken after he was ambushed and shot in June, 1965, at Hernando, Miss., a few miles south of Memphis; Mr. Meredith was not seriously hurt.

Outside the emergency room some of Dr. King's aides waited in forlorn hope. One was Chauncey Eskridge, his legal adviser. He broke into sobs when Dr. King's death was announced.

"A man full of life, full of love, and he was shot," Mr. Eskridge said. "He had always lived with that expectation- but nobody ever expected it to happen."

But the Rev. Andrew Young, executive director of Dr. King's Southern Christian Leadership Conference, recalled there had been some talk Wednesday night about possible harm to Dr. King in Memphis.

Mr. Young recalled: "He said he had reached the pinnacle of fulfillment with his nonviolent movement, and these reports did not bother him."

Mr. Young believed that the fatal shot might have been fired from a passing car. "It sounded like a firecracker," he said.

In a nearby building, a newsman who had been watching a television program thought, however, that "it was a tremendous blast that sounded like a bomb."

There were perhaps 15 persons in the motel courtyard area when Dr. King was shot, all believed to be Negroes and Dr. King's associates.

Past the courtyard is a small empty swimming pool. Then comes Mulberry Street, a short street only three blocks away from storied Beale Street on the fringe of downtown Memphis.

Fire Station Nearby

On the other side of the street is a six-foot brick restraining wall, with bushes and grass atop it and a hillside going on to a patch of trees. Behind the trees is a rusty wire fence enclosing backyards of two-story brick and frame houses.

At the corner at a Butler Street is a newish-looking white brick fire station.

Police were reported to have chased a late-model blue or white car through Memphis and north to Millington. A civilian in another car that had a citizens band radio was also reported to have pursued the fleeing car and to have opened fire on it.

The police first cordoned off an area of about five blocks around the Lorraine Motel, chosen by Dr. King for his stay here because it is Negro-owned. The two-story motel is an addition to a small two-story hotel in a largely Negro area.

Mayor Henry Loeb had ordered a curfew here after last week's disorder, and National Guard units had been on duty for five days until they were deactivated Wednesday.

Last night the Mayor reinstated the curfew at 6:35 and declared:

"After the tragedy which has happened in Memphis tonight, for the protection of all our citizens, we are putting the curfew back in effect. All movement is restricted except for health or emergency reasons."

Governor Ellington, calling out the National Guard and pledging all necessary action by the state to prevent disorder, announced:

"For the second time in recent days, I most earnestly ask the people of Memphis and Shelby County to remain calm. I do so again tonight in the face of this most regrettable incident.

"Every possible action is being taken to apprehend the person or persons responsible for committing this act.

"We are also taking precautionary steps to prevent any acts of disorder. I can fully appreciate the feelings and emotions which this crime has aroused, but for the benefit of everyone, all of our citizens must exercise restraint, caution and good judgment."

National Guard planes flew over the state to bring in contingents of riot-trained highway patrolmen. Units of the Arkansas State Patrol were deputized and brought into Memphis.

Assistant Chief Bartholomew early this morning said that unidentified persons had shot from rooftops and windows at policemen eight or 10 times. He said bullets had shattered one police car's windshield, wounding two policemen with flying glass. They were treated at the same hospital where Dr. King died.

Sixty arrests were made for looting, burglary and disorderly conduct, chief Bartholomew said.

Numerous minor injuries were reported in four hours of clashes between civilians and law enforcement officers. But any serious disorders were under control by 11:15 P.M., Chief Bartholomew said. Early this morning streets were virtually empty except for patrol cars riding without headlights on.

Once Stabbed in Harlem

In his career Dr. King had suffered beatings and blows. Once- on Sept. 20, 1958- he was stabbed in a Harlem department store in New York by a Negro woman later adjudged insane.

That time he underwent a four-hour operation to remove a steel letter opener that had been plunged into his upper left chest. For a time he was critical list, but he told his wife, while in the hospital, "I don't hold any bitterness toward this woman."

In Memphis, Dr. King's chief associates met in his room after he died. They included Mr. Young, Mr. Abernathy, Mr. Jackson, the Rev. James Bevel and Hosea Williams.

They had to step across a drying pool of Dr. King's blood to enter. Someone had thrown a crumpled pack of cigarettes into the blood.

After 15 minutes they emerged. Mr. Jackson looked at the blood. He embraced Mr. Abernathy.

"Stand tall!" somebody exhorted.

"Murder! Murder!" Mr. Bevel groaned. "Doc said that's not the way."

"Doc" was what they often called Dr. King.

Then the murdered leader's aides said they would go on to the hall where tonight's rally was to have been held. They wanted to urge calm upon the mourners.

Some policemen sought to dissuade them.

But eventually the group did start out, with a police escort.

At the Federal Bureau of Investigation office here, Robert Jensen, special agent in charge, said the F.B.I. had entered the murder investigation at the request of Attorney General Ramsey Clark.

Last night Dr. King's body was taken to the Shelby County morgue, according to the police. They said it would be up to Dr. Derry Francisco, county medical examiner, to order further disposition.

Revisionism

Revisionism from Spike EP on Vimeo.

...And I want to quote for you, to you, from the oldest history book in Western civilization. Not just because it's a book, but I think this is a point one can make about any history course, it doesn't matter what the subject is. It can be Social History, Political History, Intellectual History, any history. It can be the History of Ancient Rome, it could be Post-1945 United States, it could be any history. But any history course ought to do the two things that Herodotus named in the opening sentence of the oldest history book we have. This is Herodotus, The History. Isn't it great when you're writing the first book, what are you going to call it? The History; no subtitles, nothing fancy, just — "I, Herodotus of Halicarnassus, am here setting forth my history, that time may not draw the color from what man has brought into being, nor those great and wonderful deeds manifested by both the Greeks and the barbarians, fail of their report, and together, with all of this, the reason why they fought one another."

I don't know how closely you listened to that, but what has Herodotus just said? He's basically said history is two things. It's the story, it's the color, it's the great deeds, it's the narrative that takes you somewhere; but it's also the reason why, it's also the explanations. That's what history does. It's supposed to do both of those things. Some of us are more into the analysis, and we're not so fond of story. Some of us just love stories and don't care about the analysis — "oh, stop giving me all that interpretation, just tell me the good story again." 

This is what goes on, of course, out in public history all the time: "just tell us the old stories and just sing us the old songs, make us feel good again. Stop interpreting, you historians, and worst of all, stop revising."

 You notice how that word 'revision' has crept into our political culture? When politicians don't like the arguments of people who disagree with them they accuse them of being revisionist historians. It was even a poll-tested word for a while when Condoleezza Rice was using it. "Revisionist, revisionist." As though all history isn't revisionist.

My favorite story about revisionism is my buddy, Eric Foner, was on a talk show once. About 1992. He was on one of those shouting talk shows with Lynne Cheney, who at that — Dick Cheney's wife — who was then head of the NEH. And this was a time — you won't remember this — we were having this national brouhaha over what were called National History Standards. 

And Lynne Cheney, if you remember, a real critic of these National History Standards. She didn't particularly like some of the ideas that the historians were coming up with. So on this talk show — it was Firing Line where you get two people on and they just shout at each other for an hour, or a half hour, and the producers love it. 

And Foner is pretty good at rapid fire coming back, he's pretty good at it. Anyway they had this set-to and she kept accusing him and other historians of being "revisionist." 

And Eric says the next morning he got a phone call from a reporter atNewsweek and she said, "Professor Foner, when did all this revisionism begin?" 

And Foner said, "Probably with Herodotus." 

And the Newsweek reporter said, "Do you have his phone number?" 

Never underestimate the ignorance — H.L. Mencken said this, I didn't — never underestimate the ignorance of the American people. Or of journalists, or of — .

Black people according to Herodotus

Herodotus, a Greek historian, wrote a history of the known world 2,440 years ago. It is the oldest book we have where a person we would call White talks at length about black-skinned people.

Three things set him apart from the way Whites talk about Blacks in our time:

1. He did not divide the world by race. He divided it by continent – Europe, Asia and Libya (Africa) – and by language – Greek and barbarian – but not by race. He talks about people with black skin, but not about “black people” as if they were one of the main kinds of humans. He applies the term “Ethiopian” to some black-skinned people, but not to all.
2. Egyptians were black. He saw Egyptians as having black skin and woolly hair (Herodotus, 2.104). He visited Egypt 75 years after the Persians had taken over but before the Greeks, Romans and Arabs had. He travelled the whole length of the country from north to south.
3. No colourism. In his time, people with black skin, like Egyptians and Ethiopians, were more civilized than some with white skin, like Scythians and Celts. Lighter-skinned Greeks got much of their civilization from darker-skinned Egyptians. White-skinned people were not even the most beautiful:
   

   “The Ethiopians to whom Cambyses sent these gifts are reputed to be the tallest and most beautiful of all peoples.” (3.20)

The incomplete list of people with black skin in Herodotus:

• Egyptians – seen as having the most ancient civilization, way older than Greece.
• Ethiopians (Nubians, etc) – live south of Egypt. Meroe is their mother city (2.29). Civilized but not as civilized as Egypt (2.30). They once ruled Egypt (2.100, 137-139). Herodotus seems to apply the term “Ethiopian” to more than just Nubians: he also talks about long-lived Ethiopians (3.17-26, 97) and cave-dwelling Ethiopians (4.183). Most of them would have been Nilo-Saharans.
• Asian Ethiopians (Dravidians?) – look just like Ethiopians but their hair is straight instead of woolly. They serve in the Persian army in their own divisions as part of the Indian contingent (7.70).
• Colchians – live on the eastern shore of the Black Sea. Because they have black skin, woolly hair and practise circumcision, Herodotus says they are clearly Egyptian (2.104).
• short men (Pygmies?) – live along what is probably the Niger River (2.32-33) and somewhere on the west coast of Africa (4.43). They live in cities. Those along the Niger practise sorcery. Those on the coast, called dwarfs, wear clothes made of palm leaves.

Other Africans: Herodotus talks about the people who live along the coast between Egypt and Carthage (4.168-180) and along the caravan route that goes west across the Sahara (4.181-199). He does not bring up their skin colour, but remarks on the long hair of those who live along the coast. Most of them would have been Berbers.

In Africa, Herodotus visited Egypt and, just to the west, Cyrene. The rest he knows about from asking questions, particularly in Egypt.

Cicero called Herodotus the “Father of History”. Plutarch called him the “father of lies”. Herodotus felt his duty was to report what he had seen and heard. He expresses doubts about some of what he reports, but puts it out there to let readers come to their own conclusions.

Source: Herodotus, “History” (425 BC). See above for book and section numbers. 

See also:

• Herodotus
• Racism before 1400
• Africa, the last 13,000 years – Nilo-Saharans and such
• Black people according to:
  • Thomas Jefferson
  • 1911 Britannica
  • Franz Boas
  • 1959 Golden Book Encyclopedia
  • White Americans
  • American television
• colourism
• How black was Ancient Egypt?
• Cheikh Anta Diop
  • Diop: What were the Egyptians?
  • Diop: Birth of the Negro Myth
  • Diop: Modern Falsification of History
  • Diop: Arguments for a Negro Origin
  • Diop: Arguments Against a Negro Origin
  • Diop: Reply to a Critic
• What to unlearn to learn African history
  • The term “sub-Saharan Africa” racist?
• My favourite Greek books

Raul Hilberg

“He was an intensely stubborn and contrary person,”

The First Zundel Holocaust Trial in 1985
from Spike EP on Vimeo.

" It is hard now to remember that the Nazi holocaust was once a taboo subject. During the early years of the Cold War, mention of the Nazi holocaust was seen as undermining the critical U.S.-West German alliance. It was airing the dirty laundry of the barely de-Nazified West German elites and thereby playing into the hands of the Soviet Union, which didn't tire of remembering the crimes of the West German "revanchists." "

- Finkelstein

"As the Nazi regime developed over the years, the whole structure of decision-making was changed. 

At first there were laws. 

Then there were decrees implementing laws. 

Then a law was made saying, "There shall be no laws." 

Then there were orders and directives that were written down, but still published in ministerial gazettes. 

Then there was government by announcement; orders appeared in newspapers. 

Then there were the quiet orders, the orders that were not published, that were within the bureaucracy, that were oral. 

Finally, there were no orders at all. 

Everybody knew what he had to do." 

- Raul Hillberg's explanation for the absence of documentation ordering or authorising the physical Destruction of the European Jews.

"Don't De-nut 'im" - Practical Anti-Racism with Lyndon Baines Johnson

"Aw, you guys - you fall all over these guys who went to Harvard, who went to Yale - they look down on me because I went to some crappy little college in Texas...

Lemme tell you something - you gonna find that I'm a damn sight more liberal than them Liberals you bin cottonin' up to..."  

- Vice President Lyndon Johnson, 

Saigon, 

1961

"Don't De-nut 'im" - LBJ Forces the Dixiecrats to Accept the First Black Man in the Cabinet

from Spike EP on Vimeo.

King: Yes. Right. Well, Mr. President, I'll tell you the main thing I wanted to share with you. This really rose out of conversations that I've had with all of the civil rights leaders--I mean the heads of civil rights organizations---as well as many people around the country as I have travelled. We have a strong feeling that it would mean so much, first, to help with our whole democracy but to the Negro and to the nation, to have a Negro in the Cabinet.

We feel that this would really would be a great step forward for the nation, for the Negro, for our international image. And it would do so much to give many people a lift who need a lift now. And I'm sure that it could give a new sense of dignity and self-respect to millions of Negroes who--there are millions of Negro youth who feel that they don't have anything to look forward to in life.

President Johnson: I agree with that. I have not publicly shouted from the house top, but I have had them sit in with me. I--the first move I made was to put one [an African American] on the [National] Security Council.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: And to put one in charge of every bit of the information that went to all of the 120 nations and take him out of an important ambassador post.1 And I am trying my best to get the housing and urban and city problems [sic], which is the number one problem in America as I see it, made into a Cabinet post. I have a good chance of getting it done, unless I get tied in with the racial thing. I'm going to concentrate all of the executive power I can to get that done. I'm pretty half-way committed to putting in [Robert] Weaver, who I consider to be a very able administrator and [who has] done a good job and who we respect pretty highly.2 And I'm trying to bring in others as assistants and deputies. I talked to them no longer than two hours ago about trying to get one in charge of, maybe, African affairs if [G. Mennen] Williams left. I don't know whether you know him or not, but I'm just giving consideration. I don't want to get it around, but it's this fellow [George] Carter that runs [the] African desk for the Peace Corps.

King: Oh, yes.

President Johnson: Do you know him?

King: I just--no, I don't know him well.

President Johnson: Well--

King: [Unclear.]

President Johnson: He's very, very able and we've got George Weaver over in the Labor Department, and I'm bringing them in just as fast as I can. 

I gave Carl Rowan the top job over [at the United States Information Agency] . . . I would guess that eight out of the ten people that I talked to felt like that I had problems there. But up to now, he's--he sits with the Security Council on everything. He participates just like the Secretary of State. 

And I'm going to--I don't want to make a commitment on it because I don't want it to get tied down in the Congress. But I'm going to shove as strong as I can to get the biggest department there--housing, urban affairs, city, transportation--everything that comes in that department that involves the urban areas of America into one department. 

And then if I can get that done without having to commit one way or the other, my hope would be that I could put the man in there and probably it would be Weaver because I think we have, more or less, a moral obligation to a fellow that's done a--

King: He's a top flight man.

President Johnson: He's done a good job, and he hasn't disappointed anybody. If we put somebody into a job and he fails, we lose three steps when we go ahead one.

King: Sure.

President Johnson: And I haven't had any of that, if you'll notice it.

King: No.

President Johnson: We haven't had any mistakes or any corruption or any scandals of any kind. And I've moved them in, I mean, by the wholesale the, both women and men.

King: Yes. Well, this--I--this is very encouraging and I was, as I said, very concerned about this and I know how others have been mentioning that--what this could mean; it would be another great step toward the Great Society.

Billie Kyles

Hollywood Acredits the Memes : Billie Kyles - The Witness in Room 306 from Spike EP on Vimeo.

"Because you know, that was a dum-dum bullet...." - The Liar Rev. Billie Kyles

"Philip Mellanson, a professor and author, testified that Memphis Police Inspector Sam Evans, now deceased, told him that he ordered tactical units away from the Lorraine at the request of a specific "Memphis Minister" associated with Dr. King, whom he named.

The notion that the "Memphis Minister" was involved in the assassination and inadvertently revealed his participation during a public speech is far-fetched. 

We confronted the "Memphis Minister" with the accusation and he denied it. 

From the Post-King Family vs Jowers et al (1999) Justice Department Report:

Dr. King's Security

Evidence was also presented to suggest a plot to facilitate the removal of Dr. King's security. We discussed most of this trial evidence, along with other related information not presented in the trial, when we considered general accusations that security was removed in Section IV.D.2.b.(1) above. However, two additional pieces of evidence were presented in King v. Jowers in an effort to suggest that Dr. King's associates assisted the alleged plot to remove his security.

Philip Mellanson, a professor and author, testified that Memphis Police Inspector Sam Evans, now deceased, told him that he ordered tactical units away from the Lorraine at the request of a specific "Memphis Minister" associated with Dr. King, whom he named.(89) In addition, other witnesses testified about their belief that the eviction of the Invaders, a group of young Memphis, African American activists, from their room at the Lorraine minutes before the shooting facilitated the assassination. One former Invader, Charles Cabbage, testified that he was told that another minister, the "SCLC Minister," a ranking member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, ordered that his group be immediately ejected.

We found nothing to support Mellanson's hearsay account that the "Memphis Minister" was the specific source of the request to remove tactical units. When we interviewed the "Memphis Minister," he denied ever making such a request. Moreover, the fact that TACT Unit 10 remained in the vicinity across the street at the fire station undermines the inference that the "Memphis Minister" conspired with law enforcement. See Section IV.D.2.b.(1)(a) above.

Likewise, nothing supports a conclusion that the eviction of the Invaders from the Lorraine, allegedly at the direction of the "SCLC Minister," is related to the assassination. We found no evidence that the Invaders had anything to do with Dr. King's security. Rather, according to associates of Dr. King and former Memphis police officers, the Invaders were young, African American activists who were attempting to associate with Dr. King. Accordingly, even if the Invaders were evicted from the Lorraine by the "SCLC Minister" or some other SCLC staff person, such action would not have diminished Dr. King's security.

Moreover, Charles Cabbage's recent trial testimony is inconsistent with his testimony to the HSCA. Twenty years ago, Cabbage testified that did not recollect the specific sequence of events leading to the Invaders' departure from the Lorraine but that they decided to leave on their own because the SCLC would not pay their room bill. Cabbage told the HSCA that "one of the [SCLC] staffers," whose name he did not provide, somehow advised him that "they [the SCLC] were no longer going to pay for the room, and we [the Invaders] were already overdue and that left no alternative but for us to check out."

Cabbage's recent testimony is also uncorroborated and contrary to the recollections of others.

Significantly, in Cabbage's recent testimony in King v.Jowers, he claimed that it was Reverend James Orange who evicted the Invaders, telling him that the "SCLC Minister" wanted them to leave immediately. When we spoke with Orange after the trial, he told us he did not recall receiving that instruction from the "SCLC Minister" or anyone else. Also, when we interviewed the "SCLC Minister," a friend and associate of Dr. King's, who has led a life of public service, he denied the accusation and claimed that he did not recall that the Invaders were even staying at the Lorraine. We are aware of nothing to contradict his denial. Accordingly, the record does not support the inference presented at trial that African American ministers associated with Dr. King facilitated the assassination by removing his security.

Dr. King's Presence on the Balcony

During the trial, the "Memphis Minister" was also called as a witness and questioned so as to create the impression that he had deliberately lured Dr. King to the balcony of the Lorraine at precisely 6:00 p.m. and left him exposed and alone so that he could be shot. This claim is consistent with the view expressed to us by Dr. Pepper and Dexter King prior to trial. To support this contention, the plaintiffs' attorney questioned the "Memphis Minister" regarding his conduct before the shooting and confronted him with words from his speech at ceremonies commemorating an anniversary of the assassination. In the speech, as he described the events of the assassination, the "Memphis Minister" recounted that just before the shot he "moved away [from Dr. King] so he [the assassin] could have a clear shot."

According to a number of witnesses interviewed by our investigation and previous investigations, Dr. King walked out of Room 306 onto the balcony of the Lorraine just before 6:00 p.m. in the company of the "Memphis Minister." Dr. King conversed with several of his other associates, who were assembled in the parking lot below as they all were preparing to go to dinner. When the "Memphis Minister" walked a few steps away from Dr. King, the assassin fired. As discussed in Section IV.D.1.a.(1) above, we determined that Dr. King's appearance on the balcony at 6:00 p.m. for a 5:00 p.m. dinner engagement could not have been anticipated with enough certainty to plan the time of the assassination.

The notion that the "Memphis Minister" was involved in the assassination and inadvertently revealed his participation during a public speech is far-fetched. The minister's comment, "I moved away so he could have a clear shot," considered in the context of his speech, appears nothing more than an inartful attempt to explain the sequence of events and the fact that Dr. King was shot when he moved away from the speaker's side. It hardly amounts to an inadvertent confession.In any event, we are aware of no information to support the accusation that the "Memphis Minister" led Dr. King to the balcony and moved away to allow the assassin to shoot. We confronted the "Memphis Minister" with the accusation and he denied it. We are also aware of nothing that would have motivated him to assist a conspiracy to murder a friend and associate, while his public life demonstrates his integrity and dedication to non-violence.

D. Conclusions Regarding The King v. Jowers Conspiracy Claims

The evidence introduced in King v. Jowers to support various conspiracy allegations consisted of either inaccurate and incomplete information or unsubstantiated conjecture, supplied most often by sources, many unnamed, who did not testify. Important information from the historical record and our investigation contradicts and undermines it. When considered in light of all other available relevant facts, the trial's evidence fails to establish the existence of any conspiracy to kill Dr. King. The verdict presented by the parties and adopted by the jury is incompatible with the weight of all relevant information, much of which the jury never heard. Accordingly, the conspiracy allegations presented at the trial warrant no further investigation.

VIII. CONCLUSION AND RECOMMENDATION

After reviewing all available materials from prior official investigations and other sources, including the evidence from King v. Jowers, and after conducting a year and a half of original investigation, we have concluded that the allegations originating with Loyd Jowers and Donald Wilson are not credible.


We found no reliable evidence to support Jowers' allegations that he conspired with others to shoot Dr. King from behind Jim's Grill. In fact, credible evidence contradicting his allegations, as well as material inconsistencies among his accounts and his own repudiations of them, demonstrate that Jowers has not been truthful. Rather, it appears that Jowers contrived and promoted a sensational story of a plot to kill Dr. King. See Sections IV.F. and G. above.

Likewise, we do not credit Donald Wilson's claim that he took papers from Ray's abandoned car. Wilson has made significant contradictory statements and otherwise behaved in a duplicitous manner, inconsistent with his professed interest in seeking the truth. Important evidence contradicting Wilson's claims, including the failure of James Earl Ray to support Wilson's revelation, further undermines his account. Although we were unable to determine the true origin of the Wilson documents, his inconsistent statements, his conduct, and substantial evidence refuting his claims all demonstrate that his implausible account is not worthy of belief. Accordingly, we have concluded that the documents do not constitute evidence relevant to the King assassination. See Section V.K. above.

The weight of the evidence available to our investigation also establishes that Raoul is merely the creation of James Earl Ray. We found no evidence to support the claims that a Raoul participated in the assassination. Rather, a review of 30 years of speculation about his identity presents a convincing case that no Raoul was involved in a conspiracy to kill Dr. King. 

See Section VI.G. above.

In accordance with our mandate, we confined our investigation to the Jowers and the Wilson allegations and logical investigative leads suggested by them, including those concerning Raoul, who is central to both allegations. We however considered other allegations, including the unsubstantiated claims made during the trial of King v. Jowers that government agencies and African American ministers associated with Dr. King conspired to kill him. Where warranted, we conducted limited additional investigation. Thus, we evaluated all additional allegations brought to our attention to determine whether any reliable substantiation exists to credit them or warrant further inquiry. We found none. 

See Section VII above.

Similarly, we considered the suggestion of the House Select Committee on Assassinations and the Shelby County District Attorney General to investigate whether James Earl Ray's surviving brothers may have been his co-conspirators. We found insufficient evidentiary leads remaining after 30 years to justify further investigation. Finally, while we conducted no original investigation specifically directed at determining whether James Earl Ray killed Dr. King, we found no credible evidence to disturb past judicial determinations that he did.

Questions and speculation may always surround the assassination of Dr. King and other national tragedies. Our investigation of these most recent allegations, as well as several exhaustive previous official investigations, found no reliable evidence that Dr. King was killed by conspirators who framed James Earl Ray. 

Nor have any of the conspiracy theories advanced in the last 30 years, including the Jowers and the Wilson allegations, survived critical examination.

We recommend no further federal investigation of the Jowers allegations, the Wilson allegations, or any other allegations related to the assassination unless and until reliable substantiating facts are presented. 

At this time, we are aware of no information to warrant any further investigation of the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

The Ka

Ka

Ka-(ba)

Ka-(ba)-Lah

Selma

Johnson Conversation with Martin Luther King on Jan 15, 1965 (WH6501.04)

Listen: 

Download: WAV MP3

Browse Johnson Finding Aids

Tape: WH6501.04

Conversation: 6736

Date: January 15, 1965

Details: Martin Luther King

Transcript:

In responding to Dr. King's suggestion for the appointment of African American to a Cabinet-level post, Johnson laid out his priorities on racial matters, particularly in legislation and in Cabinet-level appointments. Johnson and King discuss the importance of the Voting Rights Act in the context of much broader legislation to help black Americans, especially poor black Americans.

Operator: Dr. King?

Martin Luther King, Jr.: Yes?

Operator: The President will be right with you. He's outside. We're getting him. Just a moment.

King: Thank you.

Pause.

President Johnson: Hello?

King: Hello?

President Johnson: This is Lyndon Johnson. I had a call--

King: [Unclear.]

President Johnson: --from you and I tried to reply to it a couple times--Savannah and different places--and they said you were traveling [chuckles] and I got to traveling last night. [Unclear comment by King] Just got down here to meet the Prime Minister of Canada this morning. And I had a moment and I thought maybe we better try to--I'd better try to reply to your call.

King: Well, I certainly appreciate your returning the call, and I don't want to take but just a minute or two of your time. First, I want to thank you for that great State of the Union message. It was really a marvelous presentation. And I think we're on the way now toward the Great Society.

President Johnson: I'll tell you what our problem is. We've got to try with every force at our command--and I mean every force--to get these education bills that go to those people [with] under $2,000 a year [of] income, 1.5 billion [dollars]. And this poverty [bill] that's a billion, and a half and this health [bill] that's going to be 900 million [dollars] next year right at the bottom. We've to get them passed before the vicious forces concentrate and get them a coalition that can block them. Then we have got to--so we won't divide them all and get them hung up in a filibuster. We've got to--when we get these big things through that we need--Medicare, education--I've already got that hearing started the 22nd in the House and 26th in the Senate. Your people ought to be very, very diligent in looking at those committee members that come from urban areas that are friendly to you to see that those bills get reported right out, because you have no idea--it's shocking to you--how much benefits they will get. There's 8.5 billion [dollars] this year for education, compared to 700 million [dollars] when I started. So you can imagine what effort that's going to be. And this one bill is a 1.5 billion [dollars]. Now, if we can get that and we can get a Medicare [bill]--we ought to get that by February--then we get our poverty [bill], that will be more than double what it was last year.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: Then we've got to come up with the qualification of voters. That will answer 70 percent of your problems.

King: That's right.

President Johnson: If you just clear it out everywhere, make it age and [the ability to] read about write. No tests on what [Geoffrey] Chaucer said or [Robert] Browning's poetry or constitutions or memorizing or anything else.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: And then you may have to put them in the post office. Let the Postmaster--that's a federal employee that I control who they can say is local. He's recommended by the Congressmen, he's approved by the Senator. But if he doesn't register everybody I can put a new one in.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: And it's not an outside Washington influence. It's a local man but they can all just to go the post office like they buy stamps. Now, I haven't thought this through but that's my general feeling, and I've talked to the Attorney General, and I've got them working on it. I don't want to start off with that any more than I do with 14-B because I wouldn't get anything else.

King: Yes. Yes. [Unclear.]

President Johnson: Do you--And I don't want to publicize it, but I want--that's--I wanted you to know the outline of what I had in mind.

King: Yes. Well, I remember that you mentioned it to me the other day when we met at the White House, and I have been very diligent in not . . . making this statement.

President Johnson: Well, your statement was perfect about the vote's important, very important. And I think it's good to talk about that. And I just don't see how anybody can say that a man can fight in Vietnam but he can't vote in the post office.

King: Yes. Right. Well, Mr. President, I'll tell you the main thing I wanted to share with you. This really rose out of conversations that I've had with all of the civil rights leaders--I mean the heads of civil rights organizations--

President Johnson: Yeah.

King: --as well as many people around the country as I have traveled. We have a strong feeling that it would mean so much, first, to help with our whole democracy but to the Negro and to the nation, to have a Negro in the Cabinet. We feel that this would really would be a great step forward for the nation, for the Negro, for our international image. And it would do so much to give many people a lift who need a lift now. And I'm sure that it could give a new sense of dignity and self-respect to millions of Negroes who--there are millions of Negro youth who feel that they don't have anything to look forward to in life.

President Johnson: I agree with that. I have not publicly shouted from the house top, but I have had them sit in with me. I--the first move I made was to put one [an African American] on the [National] Security Council.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: And to put one in charge of every bit of the information that went to all of the 120 nations and take him out of an important ambassador post.1 And I am trying my best to get the housing and urban and city problems [sic], which is the number one problem in America as I see it, made into a Cabinet post. I have a good chance of getting it done, unless I get tied in with the racial thing. I'm going to concentrate all of the executive power I can to get that done. I'm pretty half-way committed to putting in [Robert] Weaver, who I consider to be a very able administrator and [who has] done a good job and who we respect pretty highly.2 And I'm trying to bring in others as assistants and deputies. I talked to them no longer than two hours ago about trying to get one in charge of, maybe, African affairs if [G. Mennen] Williams left. I don't know whether you know him or not, but I'm just giving consideration. I don't want to get it around, but it's this fellow [George] Carter that runs [the] African desk for the Peace Corps.

King: Oh, yes.

President Johnson: Do you know him?

King: I just--no, I don't know him well.

President Johnson: Well--

King: [Unclear.]

President Johnson: He's very, very able and we've got George Weaver over in the Labor Department, and I'm bringing them in just as fast as I can. I gave Carl Rowan the top job over [at the United States Information Agency] . . . I would guess that eight out of the ten people that I talked to felt like that I had problems there. But up to now, he's--he sits with the Security Council on everything. He participates just like the Secretary of State. And I'm going to--I don't want to make a commitment on it because I don't want it to get tied down in the Congress. But I'm going to shove as strong as I can to get the biggest department there--housing, urban affairs, city, transportation--everything that comes in that department that involves the urban areas of America into one department. And then if I can get that done without having to commit one way or the other, my hope would be that I could put the man in there and probably it would be Weaver because I think we have, more or less, a moral obligation to a fellow that's done a--

King: He's a top flight man.

President Johnson: He's done a good job, and he hasn't disappointed anybody. If we put somebody into a job and he fails, we lose three steps when we go ahead one.

King: Sure.

President Johnson: And I haven't had any of that, if you'll notice it.

King: No.

President Johnson: We haven't had any mistakes or any corruption or any scandals of any kind. And I've moved them in, I mean, by the wholesale the, both women and men.

King: Yes. Well, this--I--this is very encouraging and I was, as I said, very concerned about this and I know how others have been mentioning that--what this could mean; it would be another great step toward the Great Society.

President Johnson: I have seen where they considered Whitney for--Whitney Young--for a place with [a] top job with [Sargent] Shriver. He's running two shows, and maybe as a kind of associate director with Shriver with the poverty group. I thought that ought to get under way a little bit. I don't know what Shriver's said about it. I have a very high regard for Whitney. I like him. I don't feel--I honestly don't feel that with Roy Wilkins or with you or with [A. Philip] Randolph or with the man from CORE [James Farmer] that meets with us, I really don't think I have a moral obligation to any of them like I have to Weaver, who has been in there. And it's kind of like you being assistant pastor of your church for ten years with the understanding of your deacons that you would be--take over and then you--they lose and they don't get to make a pastor, and then you continue to carry on, and then finally when the good day comes, they say, "Well, you get back [and] sit at the second table." I just don't feel like saying that to Weaver.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: Now, Weaver's not my man. I didn't bring him in. He's a [John F.] Kennedy man, but I just think that there'd be a pretty revolutionary feeling about him. I--Carl Rowan's not my man. He's a Kennedy man. But he's got the biggest job in government, and it's a Cabinet job. He sits with the Cabinet every time. He sits with the [National] Security Council every time. And I did it the first month I was in office.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: I don't throw it around to cause him to be attacked by his appropriations [committees] because the Southerners handle them. [John] McClellan handles his appropriations. But after we get by pretty well this year and I can get this reorganization through, why, we'll not only have people like Weaver and Carter and undersecretary's places, but we'll have Rowan head there, and we'll have Weaver and perhaps some other folks on the order of Whitney and whoever you-all think's good.

King: Well, we think very highly of Whitney and--

President Johnson: I do, too.

King: --that he can play a role in--

President Johnson: [with King acknowledging] I do, too. You know, he's worked very closely in our Equal Employment [Office], and he's done a very good job in about 60 cities, where his people have branches on employment. And I rather think that there's been substantial progress--not enough--but I rather think there's been substantial progress with industry on a higher level. Don't you?

King: I think so. There's no doubt about it.

President Johnson: Every corporation I talk to--and I talked to 30 of them yesterday--they are looking for Negroes that can do the job that a George Weaver does or Carl Rowan does or a fellow like Weaver does. If we have some of them, and if you have some of them, and you get them to Hobart Taylor, we can find companies that will use men of that quality.3Then when they get in, they can look after the ones below them like you're looking after your people.

King: Well, I think you're right, and we're certainly going to continue to work in that area.

President Johnson: There's not going to be anything though, Dr., as effective as all of them voting.

King: That's right. Nothing--

President Johnson: That'll get you a message that all the eloquence in the world won't bring, because the fellow will be coming to you then instead of you calling him.

King: And it's very interesting, Mr. President, to notice that the only states that you didn't carry in the South, the five Southern states,have less than 40 percent of the Negroes registered to vote.4 It's very interesting to notice. And I think a professor at the University of Texas, in a recent article, brought this out very clearly. So it demonstrates that it's so important to get Negroes registered to vote in large numbers in the South. And it would be this coalition of the Negro vote and the moderate white vote that will really make the new South.

President Johnson: That's exactly right. I think it's very important that we not say that we're doing this, and we not do it just because it's negroes or whites. But we take the position that every person born in this country and when they reach a certain age, that he have a right to vote, just like he has a right to fight. And that we just extend it whether it's a Negro or whether it's a Mexican or who it is.

King: That's right.

President Johnson: And number two, I think that we don't want special privilege for anybody. We want equality for all, and we can stand on that principle. But I think that you can contribute a great deal by getting your leaders and you yourself, taking very simple examples of discrimination where a man's got to memorize [Henry Wadsworth] Longfellow or whether he's got to quote the first 10 Amendments or he's got to tell you what amendment 15 and 16 and 17 is, and then ask them if they know and show what happens. And some people don't have to do that. But when a Negro comes in, he's got to do it. And we can just repeat and repeat and repeat. I don't want to follow [Adolph] Hitler, but he had a--he had a[n] idea--

King: Yeah.

President Johnson: --that if you just take a simple thing and repeat it often enough, even if it wasn't true, why, people accept it. Well, now, this is true, and if you can find the worst condition that you run into in Alabama, Mississippi, or Louisiana, or South Carolina, where--well, I think one of the worst I ever heard of is the president of the school at Tuskegee or the head of the government department there or something being denied the right to a cast a vote. And if you just take that one illustration and get it on radio and get it on television and get it in the pulpits, get it in the meetings, get it every place you can, pretty soon the fellow that didn't do anything but follow--drive a tractor, he's say, "Well, that's not right. That's not fair."

King: Yes.

President Johnson: And then that will help us on what we're going to shove through in the end.

King: Yes. You're exactly right about that.

President Johnson: And if we do that, we'll break through as--it'll be the greatest breakthrough of anything, not even excepting this [19]64 [Civil Rights] Act. I think the greatest achievement of my administration, I think the great achievement in foreign policy, I said to a group yesterday, was the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. But I think this will be bigger because it'll do things that even that '64 Act couldn't do.

King: That's right. That's right. Yes, that's right.

Well, Mr. President, I certainly appreciate your giving me this time and I certainly appreciate getting your ideas on these things, but that I just wanted to share it with you, and I wanted you to know we have thisfeeling but we have not set on any particular person.We felt that Bob Weaver, Whitney Young, or Ralph Bunche, somebody like that [unclear]--

President Johnson: Every one of those people have my respect. And what you do is this: you just say to them that I'm not going to send a message to the Congress. And say that if you will give me this power, I will do this as a trade, because I think that would do us all damage. But if I can get my urban and housing affair[s] [bill], you know what my intentions are.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: And I've got a pretty good Cabinet. As far as I know, I'm going to keep them all, probably, except maybe the Secretary of the Treasury, perhaps. I don't know what's going to happen to the Attorney General. I've given a good deal of thought to folks like Abe Fortas, a good deal of thought to folks like Clark Clifford, a good deal thought to [Nicholas] Katzenbach, a good deal of thought to . . . all those folks are pretty liberal and they're right on our question. I've appointed John Doar in charge of the problem over there.5 But I think most of the others are planning to stay, and I need them on these big programs--health and education and defense and state. But the one thing we want to do is shove through our housing reorganization and put them in charge of the cities.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: Then New York City has got to come, sit down, and talk to these people. Chicago has got to come. New Orleans has got to come. Atlanta has got to come. If they don't, they just can't move.

King: Yes.

President Johnson: And then I think we'll have a good man who's trained that's come up through the ranks, that's married, that's not on account of color, not on account of anything else, but he'll be there.

King: Yes. Yes. Well, this is wonderful, and I certainly appreciate your--

President Johnson: The two things you do for us, now. You find the most ridiculous illustration you can on voting and point it up and repeat it and get everybody else to do it. Second thing is please look at that labor committee in the House and Senate. Please look at that health committee. Please look at that immigration committee. And let us try to get health and education and poverty through the first 90 days.

King: Yes. Well, we're going to be doing that. You can depend on our absolute support.

President Johnson: Whitney's group can go to talking to them and Roy's group can and your group can and they ought to tell [William F.] Ryan of New York and they ought to tell so-and-so in Philadelphia and they ought to tell so-and-so from Atlanta, "Please get this bill reported."

King: Yes.

President Johnson: Because I don't think you have any conception of the proportion of assistance that comes to your people in these bills. I haven't pointed that out. I haven't stressed it.

King: Right. Well, I know they will be--they have been and will be even more tremendous help and--

President Johnson: You can figure out though what $8 billion in education, what $1 billion in health, and what $1.5 billion in poverty will do if it goes to people who earn less than $2,000 a year.

King: Um-hmm.

President Johnson: Now, you know who earns less than 2,000, don't you? [chuckles]

King: That's right. Yes, sir. Well, it will certainly be a great movement. We've just got to work hard at it. [Unclear.]

President Johnson: And I'm part of this administration, but we talked about what we're going to do [for] three years and we had to do it the fourth. We passed 51 bills last year. Now, I've got those messages up there. [It is the] first time by January 15 any President has ever had a half a dozen messages before the Congress. Most of them don't even have their State of the Union until after the inauguration.

King: Yeah, that's right.

President Johnson: But they're there and they're ready for them to go to work, and we're not just going to talk. If they'll vote, I'm ready. We've got our recommendations. And we talked the first three years of our administration. We promised, and we held it up and people were getting to be pretty disillusioned, I think, when I finally beat the Rules Committee and got [the] Civil Rights [Act of 1964] out.

King: Yeah. Well, I know.

President Johnson: I think you might had a lot more revolution in this country than you could handle if we had had that Civil Rights [bill] stay in the Rules Committee under Judge Smith.

King: That's right. Oh, that's--that's such a disillusion [unclear].

President Johnson: Well, we talked about it [for] three years, you know. [Unclear comment by King] But we just did something about it. So that's what we got to do now, and you get in there and help us.

King: Well, I certainly will, and you know you can always count on that.

President Johnson: Thank you so much.

King: All right. God bless you. Thank you, Mr. President.

President Johnson: Bye. Bye.

1.Carl Rowan was Ambassador to Finland from 21 May 1963 to 8 February 1964 and in 1964 became Director of the United States Information Agency [USIA].

2.Robert C. Weaver became the first African American to be appointed to a Cabinet-level position in 1966 when President Johnson made him the first Secretary of Housing and Urban Development.

3.Hobart Taylor, Jr., Special Counsel to the President's Commission on Equal Employment Opportunity during the Kennedy Administration and Director of the Export-Import Bank of the United States during the Johnson Administration.

4.President Johnson won the 1964 Presidential election in a landslide, carrying all but six states, five of which were in the Deep South (the sixth was Nevada)--South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana.

5. John Doar was Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights. President Johnson likely meant hte Division of Civil Rights in the Justice Department.