Intertwined

“The Trouble then is just this : 

During this period the atomic 

clock ticks faster and faster. 

We may anticipate a state of affairs 

in which Two Great Powers will 

each be in a position to put an end to 

The Civilisation and 

Life of The Other, 

though not without 

risking its own. 

We may be likened to 

Two Scorpions in a bottle, each 

capable of Killing The Other, 

but only at the risk 

of His Own Life.”

— J. Robert Oppenheimer.

PAUL HOLDENGRÄBER: 

All right. Let’s look at this Sugar Ray Leonard/Robert Durán fight. 

It’s round 12, June 20th, 1980. 

MIKE TYSON: 

This is the moment when I wanted to be A Fighter, watching 

Two Masters fight. 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 

PAUL HOLDENGRÄBER: 

What’s happening? 

MIKE TYSON: 

These Two Fighters waiting for, 

setting up, waiting for a moment 

right now, any moment he’s ready, 

he’s ready to land a punch, but his 

head moved, as soon as he thinks he’s set, then he moves his head, 

then, watch this guy, he’s getting 

ready to punch with dazzling combination, but he can’t hit,

both guys are fighting. 

It’s almost like the fighting’s staged, it’s choreographed, 

they can’t hit each other, 

but they’re both punching, 

very tired, too, the twelfth round. 

I didn’t really know if 

I was going to be 

A Fighter or not, 

but after watching these guys, 

I knew. You know they were fighting, they fought fifteen rounds, and it was a war, but none of them has a mark on their face. 

It was a hard fight, but nobody 

had a mark on their face, 

they’re master technicians, you know? 

They knew their craft well. 

PAUL HOLDENGRÄBER: 

And he’s your favorite fighter. 

MIKE TYSON: 

Durán, yes, yes. 

PAUL HOLDENGRÄBER: 

You actually say in the book that most people assume that’s it’s Ali, 

but it’s really Durán for You. Why? 

MIKE TYSON: 

He was a street fighter like me. 

PAUL HOLDENGRÄBER: 

You identified with him. 

MIKE TYSON: 

Yeah, he was cruel and mean. 

I never looked at Ali —

I respected Ali and 

I worshiped Ali, but 

he was very tall 

and very handsome, 

I was very short and

not so handsome and 

I wasn’t good-looking

and he was very, I don’t know, articulate 

and I spoke with a lisp 

and I didn’t relate The Two, 

besides We were Black. 

Ali was a Middle-class kid, 

he had a Mother and Father 

that both worked —

My Mother and Father 

were in the sex industry. 

Roberto Durán’s Mother 

was pretty much, 

you know what I mean, 

out there as well, 

so I related to that, and 

I didn’t have to change —

I didn’t have to change my diction, 

I didn’t have to learn 

how to talk polite, 

I didn’t have to be nice, 

I didn’t have to have 

a proper linguistic skill 

and so if he could be accepted 

and be worshiped that way 

I thought I would be 

able to as well. 

PAUL HOLDENGRÄBER: 

He made it click for you. 

It was him who made you 

want to become— 

MIKE TYSON: 

It was him. He was just a master fighter. After that fight he pushed Lenny into some other guy and told him to suck his balls (laughter) and I just drove me nuts, I said, “Yeah, that’s my man.” (laughter/applause) 

But then you have to understand, I’m fourteen, I’m only fourteen years old when these guys fought, this was 1980, so I’m fourteen years old and I thought that was the most remarkable person in the world. (laughter) You know, a lot of people when they hear me talk about these events in my life they can’t imagine I’m twelve years old. 

They always think I’m older.

 PAUL HOLDENGRÄBER: 

No, this is what is amazing. 

It’s the first hundred and fifty pages of the book, you realise that when you’ve arrived there, you are only fifteen or sixteen years old, 

and you’ve lived a hundred lives 

it feels like, the intensity and extremity of The Life is so extraordinary, one feels that it’s nearly incredible that 

you’re so young. 

MIKE TYSON: 

I don’t know why. 

I was born with great perception, 

if it came from my street life, 

from being locked up for stealing 

and facing unbelievable odds as a young kid, I had great perception. 

And once I watched 

those guys fight, 

I just knew — it was a matter of Time, 

but I knew My Time 

would soon come. 

PAUL HOLDENGRÄBER: 

And You also had a perception that 

Your Life would not LAST. 

MIKE TYSON: 

No, but I knew I knew 

I would obtain my goal 

before it existed, 

I knew that, I knew 

I would be champ of 

The World before I died. 

I knew I wasn’t going to die 

before I became champ. 

You know, Dying is just as 

glorious as Living when you 

really think about it. 

Because You couldn’t 

have a Life 

if You didn’t have Death, and 

You couldn’t have Death 

without Life, so

How could Death be 

less glorious than Life —

They’re Both Intertwined

with one another.