Tom

 

so I know I know you were at some sort of sci-fi convention yesterday tell me about those conventions what do you have

: secondsto do well you know I'm a sort of uh I'm a sort of God in the in the science

: secondsfantasy world and uh and the my fans uh have become sort of

: secondspilgrims uh and they don't go to LS or Mecca or medina or whatever they come to say cambas Sans to pontins

: secondswhere I arrive and they they handle me and worship me and and I congratulate them on their taste and I sign

: secondsautographs very affectionately and there's quite a lot of physicality you know a lot of a lot of kissing and hugging goes on um and they have their

: secondsphotographs taken with me and they just adore me really and

: secondsI I can't complain you know because I always wanted to be loved really uh and then then as I got more confident I

: minute, secondwanted to be adored and now in the Twilight of my life I have to tell you

: minute, secondsthe good news and now I'm well worshiped really but you go all over the world

: minute, secondsdoing it do you have to do you have to is it a bit do you have to dress up do you have to put the hat and the scarf on and be Doctor Who no I no no no because

: minute, secondsthat's all in their head you know they you see fan love is infinitely Superior to human being love because fans

: minute, secondsuh they don't say oh God he you know he he's he's gone bald or he's fat or he's old because it must be something to do with you'd know this better than I do

: minute, secondsthat the that no the power of nostalgia actually is the is a trigger from a tune or a smell or a sight of an old Doctor

: minute, secondsWho that catapults you back to when you were young and full of hope uh and happy

: minute, secondsyou know and I'm thinking and so when someone actually reminds you of that you're very vulnerable and we're all

: minute, secondslike that aren't we I mean if someone to meet uh you know a great football player a great Cricket player a great singer uh

: minutes, secondsdoes that to us doesn't it when we meet them old we jump back and we love them for that pleasure they give us it's the

: minutes, secondsmiracle uh even an old lover can do that you can do this all over the world though can't you I mean you can go to I mean how many countries I don't know how many countries Doctor Who's been shown

: minutes, secondsin  yeah it was very interesting to go to a foreign country and be famous as you got off the plane and indeed you

: minutes, secondsknow to have a certain uh rubbing a Hostess is used to rub against me you know um yeah you don't have to do

: minutes, secondsanything when you get they don't expect a speech about science fiction or you you stand there and they take pictures of you and you sign autographs or they

: minutes, secondswant to kiss you or yeah they want to kiss they mostly want to kiss me yes uh and and to handle me and and also they

: minutes, secondstremble a lot uh the way one does with a God I suppose it's a long time since I tremble but I used to tremble in front

: minutes, secondsof the the Tabernacle when I was young in Liverpool you know because I mean at one time I was a fan of God I mean I was devoted to him you know it was

: minutes, secondsincredible uh of course I've forgiven him now now that I've discovered he doesn't exist bit late but you see I can we we can say this this we both went to

: minutes, secondsthe same drama school and I thought well what I wanted to be most in the world was a very would to be a famous actor and then I sort of like watched as you

: minutes, secondsbecame indeed a very very famous factor and couldn't walk anywhere without being recognized now I know money must have

: minutes, secondsbeen marvelous or still is marvelous but that business of being recognized so repeatedly how do you deal with it how

: minutes, secondshow do you manage it how do you control it I mean people got phones they've got they've got they've got cameras on their phones now wherever you go they must be taking pictures of you well they are

: minutes, secondswhen I when I go to talk I do actually talk or answer question for an hour an now it's not like being at a fascist rally you know because of course there

: minutes, secondswas a time they just listen in amazement but now they've all got their phones up in the air well while so I I have to be

: minutes, secondsa little bit more careful but being recognized you know the impulse to be an actor and being recognized you know is Success isn't it I mean and it happened

: minutes, secondsyou know right through it wasn't just uh one class or one type of person I remember one time in Sloan Square where I used to cruise at the height of my

: minutes, secondsfame there and cruise pretty successfully anyway I was outside Peter Jones which was good good place to

: minutes, secondscruise and uh a little old lady very who had been a great Beauty in her time said hello dear and I was used to this I said

: minutes, secondshello and she said oh and she clutched her bosom rather operatically and said I'm so sorry do I know you or am I going

: minutes, secondsDoty and I said gently I said perhaps you've got grandchild oh yes he said you're the man from Doctor Who good God

: minutes, secondsshe said yes as soon as I saw you I knew you were special because my titties began to tingle

: minutesand I I thought isn't that marvelous you know my mother who was a lovely a Wonder could never have said a phrase like that

: minutes, secondsand I I thought perhaps on my gravestone here lies Tom Baker who made titties tingle about sums up the silliness of

: minutes, secondsyou know of Telly Fame isn't it but we because I say we allowed just to talk a bit about the time we were together at

: minutes, secondsthis drama school and and and then when I was there with you I thought we rather we although we wanted to be famous I no

: minutes, secondsdoubt we wanted to be famous but we did really rather despise actors didn't wean you lived your life among actors did you

: minutes, secondscome to love them oh no no but I mean of course no I think actors absolutely hate each other uh but then I think that vets

: minutes, secondshate each other you know and uh chiropodists hate each other and they'll never and scientists and professors hate

: minutes, secondseach other of course you can't actually name your hatred because you never know when you might be in a play with him but I think I would quite like before I die

: minutes, secondsI have the chance I wouldn't mind making a tape uh and it will be a long list of all the people I've worked with and

: minutes, secondstaken orders from you know who really for years and I despise myself for it I've thought of as tossers you know but

: minutes, secondsyou have to do it you know one of your why actors are with any Spirit uh often anxious is that from the very beginning

: minutes, secondsyou're kicked around you know unless you're a very very big powerful actor but most of us are told what to do what the play means by people we despise you

: minutes, secondsknow called directors and they say this is a play about eyes and you say really uh you know they're talking about the white devil or something like that

: minutes, secondsyou know and I said well how there's a great line in the white devil I said uh when the man says to the Duke of

: minutes, secondsFlorence he says he about a doctor Julio who was a murderer he once bottled a fart that

: minutes, secondpoisoned a whole of Dublin so would you say I said to Roland joffy it was he became a famous film

: minutes, secondsdirector I think I said would you say that was more about noses than eyes Tommy said don't be smart you know next

: minutes, secondsso all the time you have to suppress you have to work with people you don't like and sometimes despise but that must apply to everything but you see most

: minutes, secondspeople would talk to you I'm sure many people start by talking you entirely about Doctor Who but you've you've done an awful lot of acting I've seen you in

: minutes, secondsmany parts I thought that your performance in educating Rita was quite was quite wonderful quite marvelous so much better than Michael Kane and I

: minutes, secondsenjoyed that and I also saw you're wild and of course there's the film with the raspy and all those does do you do you feel a little bit that because you've

: minutes, secondsbeen on the Telly and done Doctor Who that nobody remembers any of those other parts that you played and don't don't

: minutes, secondscharacterize you as an actor but think of you more as a performer on the television well I think no I don't think that at

: minutes, secondsall I think that I was grateful to become Doctor Who and realize you know that in fact it wasn't an acting part the way those heroes are not acting

: minutes, secondsParts because they're predictable that's the wonderful and difficult thing about playing a hero within predictability how can you be surprising and amusing you

: minutes, secondsknow and when I got to Doctor Who and then no one was telling me what to do anymore you know uh because the audience

: minutes, secondsfigures spoke for themselves um and so then people were Consulting me about things you know and I went on woman's

: minutes, secondshour uh and people were asking my opinion as if I had any opinions worth listening to you know and I found that quite funny and enjoyed that really no I

: minutes, secondswas very happy to have become Doctor Who uh and I finished odd years ago and yet yesterday I was blessing the fans

: minutes, secondswho've grown old and bald and stooped with me and who go on loving me you know uh that's quite something really don't you ever want to say didn't you ever see

: minutesme in educating rer I mean when people you know when your obituary is produced you wouldn't you like to be credited as as a good actor elsewhere rather than

: minutes, secondssimply in Doctor Who no I don't think so because I don't really ratee my acting but my doctor who was entirely Tom it

: minutes, secondswas just Tom I wasn't acting and it just fell into my lap you know and they said how are you going to do it and I said I don't know and I started saying the lines and they and the children loved it

: minutes, secondsyou know and I thought hey so who wants to act like can B Tom they're loving Tom you know and I like that because you should remember the moment when you got

: minutes, secondsthe job because uh just go back to to the actual what were you doing immediately before you went for an audition how and how in El did you get

: minutes, secondsan audition for such a big I I wrote to someone who had had once worked for and he had been at a casting session for Dr

: minutes, secondshoop because the other man had resigned and they said Bill have you've got any views he was becoming the head of the department he didn't have any views and

: minutes, secondsthat night he got a letter for the last letter he picked up was from me and uh there was a little film called

: minutes, secondsthe Golden vo of Sinbad on right next door to the BBC in Shepherd's Bush green when he went to the next one the next

: minutes, secondsday he said what about Tom Baker and they said we've never heard of him he said well he's on in the movie Next Door and they all pile off to the movie right

: minutes, secondsnext door yards away and they said yeah that's the man it was amazing H absolutely amazing and suddenly I was

: minutes, secondsstruggling and short of money and living on on somebody's floor who was very kind to me and then suddenly in a split

: minutes, secondssecond I was a sex symbol you know people to be found desirable to be desired Lori well you

: minutes, secondsknow we know we've had our moments but to be desired is a fantastic sensation I

: minutes, secondsthink but when did the idea that you would end up in Drama College was a bit strange in the first place it was almost

: minutes, secondswhy what was it that made you decide that you wanted to be an actor because looking at your background what you were

: minutes, secondsdoing in Liverpool that time in the Merchant Navy the time in the monastery there was nothing there which suggested that you might want to become an actor

: minutes, secondsno but when I was in the Army uh there wasn't all that much AC I was in the Medical Corp so so my Superior officers were all quite young doctors and we did

: minutes, secondsa lot to entertain each other you know and so I I got caught I got drawn into these entertainments uh and especially wearing women's clothes which I quite

: minutes, secondsliked which is probably what I liked about being a Roman Catholic I just wanted to get dressed up in women's clothes that rustled you know was oh

: minutes, secondsanyway I did a very good impersonation of the matron in fact it was so people were terrified it was so exact and

: minutes, secondssomebody said to me the way people do you know hey Tom said this kind doctor you know you should go to the Rader and become an

: minutes, secondsactor um because they were all laughing at my performance you know and uh and that's how it started really I mean I I

: minutes, secondscan't say I was playing with little Pollock model theaters you know putting on plays with the children in the alleyway it wasn't like that at all but

: minutes, secondsit was quite a class translation as well wasn't it because you coming from workingclass Liverpool I mean did somebody say this is how you do an audition or I mean how did you got you

: minutes, secondsgot into the rose Bru you must have done an audition yeah I did I did an audition and uh but I mean they you know people like us who'd been in the Army and I'd

: minutes, secondsbeen in the Navy and I told them I think that I'd been in the Foreign Legion that was a die but they swallowed it they could they what did they know uh and I

: minutes, secondstold them I'd been on suicide missions and things like that and they said really and their dentes clicked and I thought you know I can manipulate this

: minutes, secondslot uh and it was quite nice you know we spent our lives manipulating people it was quite nice manipulating people who are quite powerful you know I mean

: minutes, secondsactually I suppose really the joy of Seduction is the manipulation isn't it really and they didn't know what we were talking about did they they didn't they

: minutes, secondshadn't read any plays you know you'd been played by Max FES on Amer while Rose Bru there I killed the count you know or black

: minutes, secondscoffee they were hopeless did you learn anything at that college no I I I picked up I you know I learned that if I was

: minutes, secondsnice to girls and uh and did my best at the ballet dancing um that they liked me

: minutes, secondsa lot you know and of course naturally one takes advantage of people who like one I think you should do say in your in your very very funny

: minutes, secondsautobiography you talk about I think something about uh the time in the monastery in a way inclining you towards

: minutes, secondsacting as well was that was there something about you that you went there but you you went there you say in your

: minutes, secondsbook to lose your sense of self really to to to to prostrate yourself before before God in a

: minutes, secondsway although I've read about your time there I'm still never quite certain why you went there and how long you were

: minutesthere and what what a strange life it was for you to live there well you see at the Liverpool of that time you know

: minutes, secondsthe only way out for a for for an ordinary workingclass boy was through school with a grammar school and then perhaps University or something like that I I was very impressionable and not

: minutes, secondsvery good there was a lot of missing of school so I didn't get into the grammar school or anything like that because of the War uh and the other thing is I was very vulnerable you know when people

: minutes, secondswere always telling me I was brought up in a very in in a crisis time of deep faith and deep Faith makes people very very uh strange I think it makes them

: minutes, secondspassionate about very ordinary things so I remember for example a verbal Felicity Dar on say of my mother who would say

: minutes, secondsthings like um put the kettle on Louie and in five minutes if God spares us I'll make the tea as if somehow death

: minutes, secondswas imminent you know between actually putting the kettle on and making the tea and so when Mr har the Headmaster was telling us remember Baker you are

: minutes, secondsnothing you are nothing you know I didn't have all that much confidence I thought I'm nothing you know and so and then it was going to the idea of a

: minutes, secondsbasement the idea of being nothing the idea of confessing uh intimate things you know and then of course at the age of uh you

: minutes, secondsknow or or something when I discovered what it was to have a throbber on so when you went to confess it and the priest I've done an impure

: minutes, secondsAct and the priest who would be smoking two caps in full strength at the same time would get closer when he' heard

: minutes, secondsthat and is beeds would Rattle and his voice would become horse and he'd always say did pollution take

: minutes, secondsplace I thought I said I said I was B baffled about that did pollution take marvelous

: minutes, secondswork he said did you take pleasure I said yes yes I did I did and then I couldn't stop you it's caused a terrible

: minutes, secondscrisis because you know we were fragnant being run over mortal sin and the idea of of uh of these ejacul ations which

: minutesused to be a mean a prayer an ejaculation to God as opposed to an ejaculation of one seed um the thing is you know that there were Mill there are

: minutes, secondsmillions and Milli you should have asked Richard Dawkins about this about how many spermes there are but it wasn't just a mortal sin I mean when you

: minutes, secondsspilled your seed it was genocide so you were killing babies we were killing babies and their Millions

: minutes, secondsuh and so the thing is that you know when you're absolutely packed with seed and we was I I was doing genocide

: minutes, secondssometimes three times a day you know which was a hard a very hard burden on an y old people forget today don't

: minutes, secondsthey how all encompassing Catholicism was at that time and how it shifted now you can meet Catholics now and nothing about them

: minutes, secondsspeaks of repression or inhibition or concern at all it all seems to have gone yeah I believe so I believe they backtracked on all that kind of thing

: minutes, secondsbut it was a very so cruel at uh telling us that we were nothing and now L they well they've ditched Purgatory haven't

: minutes, secondthey in limbo and hell and there's hardly any confession well no I I said to a priest the other day I I met and I said from a distance because going near

: minutes, secondsthem fills me with revulsion um I uh I said to him do you actually believe in the resurrection of

: minutes, secondsthe body and I must say to to give him credit he kind of looked around like old Comics he said there and he said uh well

: minutes, secondsTomy said I think the jury is still out on that you bet it still out yeah and now what

: minutes, secondswhat about uh I was going to ask you about so we talked about that Monastery which was the idea of getting rid of the self how long were you there well nearly

: minutes, secondssix years nearly six years long by that time of course I had made the leap from a genocide you know to Chastity and

: minutes, secondsembraced the the suffering that that brings uh and really embraced the whole idea you know it was an alternative it

: minutes, secondswas an alternative existence wasn't it you see there in the monastery you didn't need to be clever all you need is is to actually be abject to have no

: minutes, secondsviews at all and that wonderful trick you know they say listen when your superiors give you an order it is God speaking so no matter how stupid it is

: minutes, secondshow patently patently stupid it is God is testing you now that's a marvelous Alibi isn't it for treating people badly

: minutes, secondsyou know we weren't of course allowed when I was a young when my n we weren't even allowed to look at each other and

: minutes, secondsso when we were in the chapel the only sight you had of anyone was the cured in the back of their neck I remember a very pretty boy in front of me called Olivier

: minutes, secondsJean and uh I used to have this terrific desire you know to stroke the back of his neck I didn't know what the front of his head looked like because we weren't allowed to look at him you know and we

: minutes, secondswere all ejaculating in the in the religious sense all day long people were crying out bletting out things like God be praised you know or think of St

: minutes, secondsStanis loss that was a good one yes um and so sometimes I'd say you know think of St Wilbur Force or something like

: minutes, secondsthat they didn't seem to notice that either when you think now can you can you imagine the sort of self that you had that believed all that because also when you look back you were talking

: minutes, secondsabout your mother I mean she believed it absolutely didn't she right the way through to the end of her life it informed her existence in my wonderful

: minutes, secondsmother said an extraordinary thing that I can recall quite clearly that I overheard as a child talking to her sister she said you know Louie thank God we're poor

: minutes, secondsand Louie said how do you mean Jane she saidwell father shak's been in and he was saying blessed are the poor for they

: minutes, secondsshall see God Mrs Baker and that consoled my mother you know it's absolutely wonderful it's a great Paradox of Christianity and that's all I

: minutes, secondsknow about the marvelous paradoxes blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth and as Mark Twain said yeah and it'll be interesting to see how

: minutes, secondslong they hold on to it uh it's all so it's a way of making poor ignorant people cope with their misery isn't it

: minutes, secondand then to be giving two Shillings a week to the church amounted in my view when I look back on it to protection

: minutes, secondsmoney a man in Black used to knock at the door and my mother would reach by the clock where there be a two Shilling piece to pay off the priest who knew how

: minutes, secondspoor we were you know but this man could forgive our sins so so we so my

: minutes, secondswhole in the tumult of my imagination death was very imminent all the time I was nothing I was abject and that the

: minutes, secondsend of the world was a desirable State and Heaven existed and then of course was the absence of privacy because if you're a if you're a Christian there's

: minutes, secondsno such thing as privacy since God is everywhere so and and then you've got your guardian angel on your left shoulder so I mean you know going for a

: minutes, secondsgood stiff rabian bowel movement made you very very tense because there were two big important people there you

: minutes, secondscouldn't see them but you believed in them uh when I was a novice in my Monastery I mean we all put on linen

: minutes, secondsgowns in order to have communal showers and of course as you can imagine with the water coming from the ceiling

: minutes, secondsat the side like that hot water and some sweaty old monk there scalding the young men that we wear or or freezing us at

: minutes, secondshis pleasure but you know the bodies of young men in Linen in linen shifts probably look quite good to certain

: minutes, secondsrepressed people mean because you feel you feel quite I think you feel quite aggressive now towards Religion Don't you because perhaps for what it did to

: minutes, secondsyour to your mother or perhaps all the people who brought into it that we swallowed all that Guff you know which finally a lot of it has been

: minutes, secondsditched apparently I don't know but you know when I uh when I watch all those Cardinals all dressed up and think that I want to put frocks on like that and

: minutes, secondsthen why doesn't someone noticed that the pope looks like Uncle Fester you know and uh this this whole idea is and

: minutes, secondsso you see I prefer the American system at least you know I mean most of what I look at television is only so that I can Jer and mock at it and shout and annoy

: minutes, secondsmy wife about it who's a a wonderful woman and puts up with me but um you know they would talk all the time as if

: minutes, secondsthey knew things and we know that they don't know things they don't know anything and so when but at least in America it's very

: minutes, secondstheatrical uh and you buy into this confidence trick you know the more eloquent they are uh you buy into it but we don't have that do we I mean religion on English

: minutes, secondstelevision or on the radio oh I need have said dear God terrible you said

: minutes, secondsbefore that I think you said something about not being did you say not much of an actor or something like that I it was

: minutes, secondsan odd an odd expression as though you as though you were critical of yourself when you were actor I didn't

: minutes, secondsknow been critical of myself the thing is I've always been at some sort of a performance which led me to be an alter boy you know and uh and carry crosses

: minutes, secondsand dress up in funny things and of course I love the thick Stupify smell of incense you know I mean I was high on

: minutes, secondsincense if one can be inhaling incense you know and and going to funerals and then realizing quite by accident I used

: minutes, secondsto sometimes go to three funerals a day you know I mean life was much more interesting and passionate than the days before penicillin you know one good dose

: minutes, secondsof uh flu would see all the old women off in a street you know a nail in your shoe on a Saturday night dance you'd be

: minutes, secondsdead by the following Thursday SE to see me a big leg uh and so I used to go to a lot of funerals and I liked going to funerals with I was on theable so at

: minutes, secondsleast I could sniff the incense anyway one day when i' been to three funerals and was very hungry because you couldn't go to you couldn't eat before you went

: minutes, secondsto the mass I must have been weeping with the cold it was terrible absolutely terrible

: minutes, secondsand at the end of the of the uh of this little burial a man took my hand which rather scared me a bit and slipped into

: minutes, secondsmy hand a warm coin when I got back into the Sacristy I realized it was a two Shilling piece or a half crown or

: minutes, secondssomething and it I was corrupted instantly when I realized he thought that I was weeping because I was sorry

: minutes, secondsyou know that his mother had died or something and he being sentimental gave me the money and when I realized that and the other toss these other boys you

: minutes, secondsknow probably went to grammar school for a while I know they were doing it absolutely straight while I was sobbing like a good one you know and they were getting thy bits while I was getting

: minutes, secondshalf crowns so it was a kind of power you know just a performer really uh but sometimes is it because you are I mean

: minutes, secondsyou're a very you're a very literate person you know you you you read a lot you I mean you love American novelist whether it's Bellow or Roth or upd and

: minutes, secondsyou Conant is there a is there a sense in which you you I you could have been a writer I've said your autobiography is brilliantly

: minutes, secondswritten it's it's such a readable piece but you've not thought about writing you presumably on Doctor Who you were often writing your own lines it sounded as

: minutes, secondsthough you were writing your own lines yeah yes I would I mean I did write a a book about an evil boy called a boy who

: minutes, secondskick pigs that yes which sells very well in gold as green but uh and that was a really a

: minutes, secondsvillain SP and it's uh it's several people have treding to turn it into into a script um I do you know I think actually I have

: minutes, secondsI do have a kind of uh slickness about being silly but when I compare the people who move me deeply a modern

: minutes, secondsnovelist like I mean you know you remember the thrill when a new novel like Herzog would come out or or humble's gift and we would worship uh uh

: minutes, secondsSaul Bellow but I think um and John up a great man great man but Philip Roth for us surely you know that that stream of

: minutes, secondsof best sellers of American pastoral you know I married a communist Sabbath theater that wonderful power and

: minutes, secondsfearlessness as he creates characters and situations raises him almost a Godlike status you know I love everything he writes even these small

: minutes, secondsones that are coming out now to get hammered I'm not as Brave as that you know to uh finally you see like a waiter

: minutes, secondsthat I am really I'm a professional pleaser I don't really really like offending

: minutes, secondspeople because it's pitiful really I want to be loved you know uh and I suppose why I go years onwards going

: minutes, secondsthrough the Doctor Who routine is that that's that worship and that love is available you know and and I take it and I take it to be but you like that you

: minutes, secondslike Power and force and energy of we were talking about people like Roth but I'm also I mean I think youve mentioned in the past people like Christopher

: minutes, secondsHitchin those sort of people who are rustu and almost enter the freay yeah I mean I adore I adore hitch's aggression

: minutes, secondshis bareface brutal aggression about you know being uh you know a crusading u

: minutes, secondsatheist I love it the way he doesn't seem to care does he that quality of not caring when it's coupled with such eloquence really Thrills me that quality

: minutes, secondsyou know I used to kick around in Soo in the days of in my salad days of all that money and all that thing kicking around to be seen

: minutes, secondswith um with Francis Bacon who didn't care about anything you know of course life had no meaning at all I I I when I

: minutes, secondswas drunk with him I got on well with him because someone was giving him a terrible bollocking about his obscene paintings and to defend him I said well I think they're rather pretty and

: minutes, secondsFrancis uh found this convulsively funny and uh and it took me into his little coaty and and and wonderful n do Wells

: minutes, secondslike Jeff Bernard and people like that you know I they thrilled me I I just I I just living on the edge of [ __ ] they were well yeah they didn't care you know

: minutes, secondand people would say some people would come at the coach and horses and say Francis is on the piss and there'd be a free s in that corner you know because

: minutes, secondsfirst of all the n wells knew perfectly well Francis picked up all the bills he used to carry a lavatory rooll of s you know uh and he was extremely

: minutes, secondsgenerous and amusing uh and you know and Jeff Bernard I was with Jeff Bernard when he had pancreatitis and doctor said

: minutes, secondsand he was in a terrible state of illness and the doctor said a nice doctor the middle sex said Jeff could you knock off the Vodka and Jeff's eyes

: minutes, secondsfilled with tears you know as if someone say will you betray your country oh no Christ he said no I couldn't give up the vodka and the doctor said well maybe you

: minutes, secondscould cut it down a bit Jeff and Jeff's eyes then filled utterly with tears and he said

: minutes, secondsno I've been with Sally schof too long to give her the elbow now and Sally smof who killed his dick

: minutes, secondsin you know who was killing him had become the great substitute it incredible transference of affection

: minutes, secondsthat finally the pain of deprivation the pain of doing without Sally outweighed his fear of death you know and I like

: minutes, secondsthat I thought that was eloquent but you you lived that I mean you you you you always strike people as as forceful as

: minutes, secondsstrong and as dominant and you a lot of that comes back to you to your voice because you do you you you know in a way

: minutes, secondshow much your living has depended upon your voice and I'm never quite sure

: minutes, secondswhere that voice came from I mean I I come from Liverpool but because I was lower middle class we always were told

: minutes, secondsnot to say grass and to say grass but I mean you had none of that and this this is a voice which comes from you but yet

: minutes, secondsit's what you think about your own voice you regard it you hear it I mean one of the most wellknown voices in the whole over the country for commercials or for

: minutesLittle Britain yeah yeah an amazing thing is quite Shameless of me really because I have a

: minutes, secondscapacity you know to be absolutely sincere about things I don't believe in

: minutes, secondsuh which I guess is the uh you know is the kind of trick of the performer isn't it you know uh I don't know commercials because you you've made a great deal of

: minutes, secondsmoney out of commercials I have done thousands of them yeah actually that's changed you know I used to do Comm about engagement rings and uh lury and things

: minutes, secondslike that which I used to very talk very softly and beds and things like that but now as I've grown older my voice is already cracked now maybe I'm better

: minutes, secondsknown or people employ me because of my coarseness in the studios um but now I do secondhand cars you know in in East

: minutes, secondsYorkshire and things like that but I do still do uh dramas BBC recordings but I hear I hear commercials and somebody

: minutes, secondssays oh that's Tom isn't it and I say no no that's a Tom impersonator because your voice is so well known that there

: minutes, secondsare as it were subt aren't there you must beware people say that's right people say that they can do a Tom Baker or whatever well

: minutes, secondsthat's fair enough you know they get on the I mean you know in a way you know a rather abject bloody career is being an impressionist isn't it you know and they

: minutes, secondsalways seem so fantastically dated you know when people actually F said have you seen his impression of of John Wayne

: minutes, secondsand you say John Wayne but I said yeah I mean oh I saw Christopher Benjamin do a fantastic impression of Julius Caesar

: minutes, secondsand you thank God what's the world coming to you know but somehow we respond to that don't we people doing impressions uh you used to do a very

: minutes, secondsgood impression on Malcolm mugger and now people would say Malcolm it's like John way really it's even worse than but he was a great Entertainer in his day

: minutes, secondswasn't here to do that but I've heard you you you you you also have I've heard a recording it must have been some sort of little bootle thing of you in a

: minutes, secondcommercial getting more and more angry at what you have to put up with I mean I think don't think many people quite know what you have to do when you're doing a

: minutes, secondsvoice over I mean it's an it can be quite absurd can't it the way you've got to repeat this Daft slogan and message over and over again yeah well I think

: minutes, secondsthat's true you know when they when they don't always know what they want but however if someone hires me they know what they're going to get you know they're going to get enthusiastic bad

: minutes, secondstaste and of course that was reinforced by Little Britain you know and marvelous lines uh some I actually suggested one they wouldn't use because even in Little

: minutes, secondsBritain they had one but I was trying to make you laugh about that wonderful line in the side of Little Britain you know yes and then we come to fat people now what do fat people do in the summer I'll

: minutes, secondstell you what they do they smell that's what they do now when when I or if when I was when I do these conferences you

: minutes, secondsknow I used to say and I'd have to say sincerely and so we're saying goodbye to Gary Mitchell our farines director and

: minutes, secondswe wish well in the future he's been great to be with that was The Way It Was Written you know after Little Britain I was entitled to say and so and we've got

: minutes, secondsto say now goodbye to to Gary you know our finance director Christ he was a good boy to go cruising with oh oh blind

: minutes, secondsme I've come all eism uh no that would have got me to sack before Little Britain after Little Britain I had the

: minutes, secondsimprator to be in bad taste with people who are afraid of it you know because no one wants to concede he's got no sense

: minutes, secondsof humor and so Gary would say what did he say about cruising they say it's a joke oh he say oh yeah yeah Tom was great to go cruising

: minutes, secondswith as well so you know you go along with them what they want really but that was I I mean those Comm how did Little Britain come along because this the SC

: minutes, secondspeople did by the way did you give up I can't I never remember whether you gave up Doctor Who or just you got sick of it I did I I I gave up after a while

: minutes, secondsbecause uh I got fed up with the new producers and the way I was going but Little Britain happened you see now I'm mostly employed by the children who

: minuteswatched me as uh as Doctor Who and so Matt Lucas and David Williams loved me when they were children you see and so

: minutes, secondswhen they were on the radio uh writing Little Britain and they needed this kind of silly man who was obviously so thick

: minutes, secondsand so reactionary that uh he was funny that was it it was a good idea and so they said let's get Tom and so they invited me along you know and there were

: minutes, secondsthese two young men and uh and they said how much they watched me at Doctor Who so now I'm mostly employed by people who watched me as Doctor Who you know and

: minutes, secondsthat's interesting isn't it the impact that you had upon children upon all that business the hiding behind the sofa there's a lovely story that you tell in

: minutes, secondsthe book about of wonder what ever happened to this child when he or she was it grew up I think you were coming down the motorway or you were coming to London

: minutes, secondsand suddenly realized that an episode of Doctor Who that you particularly wanted to see was on but you weren't going to

: minutes, secondsarrive home in time to see it well I could go in those days it was amazing how it's changed in a relatively short space of time I had access to wherever

: minutes, secondsthere were children you know I I seen thousands of pictures of children on my knee and are now brought by people who grown up and they say that's me on your

: minutes, secondsknee and this is Giles my little boy um all that sort of power I I had you know I I just celebrated and and absolutely

: minutes, secondsloved but sometimes you know quite often even now not long ago I was walking in Oxford Street in a man's top and he said Tom Baker and I said

: minutes, secondsyeah he said Tom Baker Christ and I'm used to this I saw he was rather the touch he said you know and as he looked

: minutes, secondsat me I could see him being catapulted back somewhere and he said you know when I you said when I was a kid I was in a

: minutes, secondshome you know in North Wales and uh and they didn't it wasn't very good they didn't like us you know nobody wanted us

: minutes, secondsand you made Saturday night good for us you know and I said I could see his face well and I I went to speak and he

: minutessaid and squeezed my arm and he was gone you know now to make a little speech to an old man in Ox Street odd years

: minutes, secondslater showed you know the power didn't it of a benevolent character on children's I remember the effect I can

: minutes, secondsremember at York University there was a student at that time they were all taking acid and this person was having a

: minutes, secondsreally very nasty hallucinogenic episode and the person who was taking them around said oh when they realized what time it was on a Saturday night in order

: minutes, secondsto bring the person back down to earth they switched on the television and said look it's Tom it's Doctor Who and all of

: minutes, secondsa sudden the trip dissolved and that person came back down to reality again so you're the effect that you could have but the episode I was talking about was

: minutes, secondsthat you were coming down the motorway and you stopped off and went to a house do you remember there was a dispute because uh uh Mary White House was

: minutes, secondscriticizing us for being violent and didn't like me because I said the thing is I think we're not nearly being violent enough uh because we should be

: minutesso violent that it becomes theatrical and funny um so I wanted to see this episode so I knock I saw an old Mini and

: minutes, secondssome bicycles and I knocked on this door and a young man opened the door had a split second he said yes he looked at me he said Christ Doctor Who I said listen

: minutes, secondscould I just watch the opening of a se he said come on in and I crept into this room and there were two little boys hug sitting next to each other watching it

: minutes, secondson a Telly and I got on a chair like that and and he stood he stood there savoring this amazing little incident

: minutes, secondsand so anyway it came up and I saw the uh I saw the incident of someone trying to drown me or something and thought perhaps it wasn't all that good but

: minutes, secondsanyway my I was satisfied I'd seen it like that and I was watching these little boys they were watching and then the actors started talking about the plot and the boys lost interest

: minutes, secondsnaturally they did uh and the glanced over and did amazing Double Take You

: minutes, secondsknow ah like St bernardet at you know at LS oh they couldn't believe anyway finally

: minutes, secondswe got through so it was absolutely wonderful they were ecstatic to see me and then instantly it's very interesting isn't it when people are happy when we

: minutes, secondsare happy we're instantly anxious about whether it would last or not and they said these little boys who are only about six and seven said but when we get

: minutes, secondsto school they said who will believe us they won't believe us dad and so they had to go next door and get tape recorder and I had to sign a declaration

: minutes, secondsyou know and um and all s of things like that to reassure them and then of course as soon as I got back we got in touch with the local press who went to their

: minutes, secondsschool and it was a nice little article and everything like that but that power of access you know to Children which has gone now is it now you have situations

: minutes, secondsof old men like me now are frightened of children if you came out of a news agent and there was a snotty little bugger

: minutes, secondsfalling off his bike you or I wouldn't dare pick up such a child and console him let alone say to two children outside of the outside the shop would

: minutes, secondyou like an ice cream you that has Pro a nightmare situation A friend of mine was talking to a friend of his accidentally

: minutes, secondsoutside a outside a primary school recently and some hatchet-faced woman came out and said would you two mind moving along please they mov them along

: minutes, secondsyou know two two two middle-aged men were talking outside of primary school it's a kind of Madness isn't it really talking about age what what do you I

: minutes, secondsmean you're still you're still working you're rushing around only yesterday you were at some sci-fi conference

: minutes, secondsyou why don't you stop could you stop working is do you keep working because you're bored otherwise no no I'm not you see because I don't really talk I don't

: minutes, secondsreally call this you know might be described as a job it's not a job to me it's actually being me I have the opportunity to be me all the time and

: minutes, secondsget a few laughs and and keep the fear of death at Bay uh and that that's what happens when I go up to Studios because

: minutes, secondseverybody knows me you know I get there early and they get there early and and and we have a laugh and everything and often quite often um I do Cod uh answer

: minutes, secondsphone messages for them um and then I do uh oh yes because you made you made some money there was some money in there

: minutes, secondsbecause you did I can B that's right yes and people would ring up and they would be able to well people could leave a

: minutes, secondsmessage and it was translated into my voice that was very very impressive technically that and so naturally there were a lot of dirty phone calls going around because I used to you know a very

: minutes, secondscommon one was people would say to me uh you know um George and Edith could you do our so I'd say good evening this is

: minutes, secondsTom Baker here I'm taking the I'm taking the calls for George and Edith so if you've got an interesting message to say to let us know speak after the tone and

: minutes, secondsif it's not interesting just [ __ ] off so they used to think that was terribly funny you know it it's a very old joke because but it would work you know the

: minutes, secondsidea they recognized my voice and it gave George and Edith you know a few days of celebrity and they got a lot more phone calls they got a phone calls

: minutes, secondsto be told the [ __ ] off by Tom Baker you know and I was just obliging them really we we you mentioned you use the word you

: minutes, secondsuse the word death um and um do we do we have any attitudes to death I mean you were talking about Sabbath Theater which

: minutes, secondsis a really great rage against uh against dying against the possibility of dying yes is it is it do do you think

: minutes, secondsabout it do you monitor every aspect of your physical health and think right this is it or yes I I do uh worry my

: minutes, secondshealth is generally good I'm rather arthritic as you'd expect for someone nearly but uh yeah I do think about death a lot and I I really disapprove of

: minutes, secondsit quite honestly I mean I I look on it with a certain trepidation I think but it's the process isn't not it's the dying not the death

: minutes, secondsyou know we all die but I think also uh with my workingclass background what horrifies me about dying is our vile

: minutes, secondssystem where old people now die you know separating in their own excrement or die

: minutes, secondsof hunger or die of neglect and that those kind of humiliations uh they used to say in Liverpool you know sometimes

: minutes, secondsthey say you know we're poor you know but we're clean Alan Owen put that line in one of the Beatles films and George George Harrison kept saying this is me

: minutes, secondsGranddad he's very old he's very clean he's very clean it was funny that you've got nothing else except to be clean you

: minutes, secondsknow dignity and uh and I I would rather be dead I think solemnly I would rather

: minutes, secondsbe dead than lie neglected in a hospital ward in my own excrement it's a terrible

: minutes, secondscondemnation of our system that can happen I used to be in the medical core you know and I was only an orderly highly trained orderly for a brief

: minutes, secondsthings about keep a keeping people clean in bed keeping beds without ruckle no asses or getting bed sores and we used

: minutes, secondsto cruise the wards you know looking hands in beds that's all go someone was lying there you put your hand in the bed so he was he was dry people were washed

: minutes, secondsscrupulously and uh it's not easy look looking scraping uh [ __ ] off people but

: minutes, secondsthey're people and you learn to love them and you know what that means to people you know and I wrote about it in in in my book I wrote about looking

: minutes, secondsafter someone who hated me and then became dependent upon me but that's another sad story uh there's actually a

: minutes, secondsbond between good people good nursing becomes a bond Jared Manny Hopkins wrote a uh a sonnet about It Felix Felix

: minutes, secondsRandall the farer oh he's dead then there's a bond between the nurse and and and the patient of one making life

: minutes, secondspossible bearable full of dignity and gentleness and so even old bodies or broken bodies can be something beautiful

: minutes, secondsto handle and make better um so my fear of death that's I'm sorry to God about that includes those anxieties you know

: minutes, secondsthe of course you you must we all feel it the dread of a sense of loss you know as the

: minutes, secondsloss of our the loss of our youth the loss of our hair the loss of our liido the loss of our you know when I see someone run upstairs now sometimes it

: minutes, secondsmakes me want to curious enough I've talked to several old men uh about this subject I think old people are very near

: minutes, secondsto tears a lot of the time I think um because they're near to the

: minutes, secondsgreat fright aren't they they're near to the and so therefore when you see someone beautiful and young and clean and healthy one is reminded of of the

: minutes, secondsold days now long gone you know remembrance of things pasted