Anonymous Rage-Farmers

Our Thoughts On Interviewing Dave Smith, Hasan Piker, Sam Harris and Ben...

Let's start off talking about Dave Smith. 

When was the last time you saw people 

who strongly disagree about political

issues have that kind of conversation? 

We released the Ben Shapiro interview.

One of these anonymous rage-farmers clip Ben out of context, completely

misrepresent what he was saying and try and make him out to be saying that something that he was absolutely not

saying. What these people tried to do to Ben is exactly what the mainstream media

used to do to people that it hated. It's so much easier to pull something down, to break something, than it is to

build something up, to create something, to be of genuine worth. And if you look at woke people, they're

absolutely miserable. Mhm. The people who are going down the route of bitterness and resentment on the

right, they will discover that it doesn't lead you anywhere. Who is your favorite guest and why? I always like guests that are going to

piss everyone off. So, for that reason, I'm going to say Sam Harris.

All right, Francis, we are wrapping up our US trip. This is the 33rd interview

that we're recording, the final one. Dana Wise has just walked out of the studio. Um, by the time people see this,

it'll be a couple of days since kind of a lot has happened and we've only released like five of the episodes that

we've done. I know. It's been amazing. Look, firstly, what an amazing trip. We have

done four different cities, three different states, three different time zones.

That's right. I don't even know what time it is. I mean, we all get up now anywhere between

4 and 5:00 in the morning like Buddhist monks because our body clock's broken, but it's been an amazing

We don't spend our evenings like Buddhist monks. No, that is true. Buddhist monks don't eat takeaway pizza. But anyway, it has

been an amazing trip with some incredible guests. Look, let's start off talking about Dave Smith, who we

 The Dave Smith Interview

recorded a matter of days ago. I mean, what a brilliant conversation. And props

to Dave for coming on the show, number one, and number two, being an all round good bloke. He was great. And actually, one of the

things that I thought that happened is when was the last time you saw people who strongly disagree about political

issues have that kind of conversation on YouTube, on a podcast? When was the

last time you saw that? Two and a half, three hours if you're a supporter of ours on Substack where you got to see

another extra half an hour. Three hours of three people, two people, it doesn't

really matter how you frame it, who disagree about a lot of things having a

genuine conversation the way you would do with your best mate in the pub. We don't see it anymore. And that is the

real that is the beautiful thing about the conversation. But it's also there's

a there's a sad element to it which is we've lost that ability. And one of the things that made me really proud of

being part of that conversation was that we kind of helped to model a form of

behavior which I think we're in not that we're in danger of losing but that has

kind of been lost. People don't do this anymore. So what you've got is we what we had was

mainstream media Kathy Newman style interviews. So what you're saying is you're a terrible person. Here's a quote

you said represented out of context. You're a terrible person. And we went from that to what was an exciting moment

in new media YouTube podcasting where it's like let's not try and misrepresent

other people. Let's just have a conversation. But what that's morphed to is let's just invite anybody on whatever

their crazy views however much you disagree with them or don't because nobody knows because you don't challenge

them and you never debate the issues or that's one option which is you know what

people like Tucker have been doing with people like Nick Fuentes and Daryl Cooper and all these other people who've got in my opinion horrific and terrible

and most importantly wrong ideas. And on the other hand, you've got like

this fake conversation debate thing where you've just got two people going

at each other and trying to win. And I've done some of those debates cuz that's how those shows are set up,

right? But what I think, as you rightly say, we did is we modeled a different way. And I'm incredibly proud of it. And

the person who deserves most of the credit for that is Dave. Because if Dave had come in here and acted like this was

a debate where he was trying to win, we would have probably had no choice but to to respond in kind. But because of the

way that he carried himself, we could conduct ourselves the way we'd normally like to do. Uh and I I think that's what

actually that's what we need more of. We absolutely need more of it because

this approach, the approach A and approach B which you've just presented is ultimately a zero sum game.

you just you don't get anywhere with it. Okay, one person comes out and they're the victor and you go, "Well, great, but

where does that actually lead us? It doesn't lead us anywhere." Because one of the things that we know about our

civilization and why it's in crisis is because it's divided is because we've

we're looking at the people who disagree with us and failing to see the humanity. And you know, I've had messages and so

of you, oh Dave Smith says, I'm telling you right now, I like him. I thought he was a good bloke and he was a good

bloke. Yeah, exactly. His crime in many people's eyes is that he's wrong. Uh but but that's like when we were in

our 20s like that's what debates looked like. It was like two people coming together having mutual respect arguing

the points and saying this guy's wrong about everything. That's what it looked like. You know, Peter Hitchens debated

Christopher Hitchens two brothers and they were debating in this way. uh that's how it used to be and I just

think uh the mainstream media forgot that that's how it's supposed to be and then the new media forgot how that

that's how it's supposed to be and I hope that we collectively people who do this for a living not just me you and

Dave but lots of people take this on as an opportunity to go okay well this is a

new phase now we can do this now we can have the actual disagreements and debates out in the air and what happened

was interesting because the day that we recorded the conversation with Dave and we walked out of here feeling some sort

of like reconnection with the good in humanity basically uh despite the disagreements that we we explored. That

was the day that we released the Ben Shapiro interview which we' done a couple of days prior which was a great

conversation about Zoramani about his disagreements with Tucker about his views on Nick Fuentes

and what happened with that interview is a perfect example of how the new media space is becoming deranged as well

because you had one of these anonymous rage farmers on Twitter clip Ben out of

context, completely misrepresent what he was saying, remove all the context of

what he was saying and try and make him out to be saying that something that he was absolutely not saying.

And that you know that meme about which way western man that to me is the which

way western man thing. Are you going to engage with ideas that you don't like?

or are you going to lie about the people who you don't like so that you can

mobilize your tribe and by the way make money on Twitter from lying about

somebody and clipping them completely out of context. That's the choice that people now have

and the vast vast vast majority of people are not taking the good choice in that situation. And that's a

disappointing thing because the reality is is that if we're going to get better as a society, everybody needs to play

their part. Everybody has responsibility. Whether it's the people in front of the camera, whether it's the

production crew, the social media people, but also the people at home in their own lives and when they're

engaging in content. And the worrying thing to me is that people just they

don't care about the truth. And when you don't care about the truth, what happens

is that the truth will ultimately die. And we need to be very very very careful

as a society because if we want this to carry on, if we want west western civilization to carry on, to flourish,

to thrive, then it's important that we have good faith discussions, we are also

it's also very important that we realize what is truth. Because when you start celebrating things that are not true,

when you start celebrating things that are falsehood, not only are you promoting them, you're effectively

dementing people around you because people don't know what's true anymore. And when people don't know what's true

anymore, that's when things start going very, very, very dark. Well, that was the worrying thing to me.

 The BBC/Trump Scandal Shows The Issue With Mainstream Media

And not least because what these people tried to do to Ben is exactly what the

mainstream media used to do to people that it hated. They and while we have been here in the US, there's been a

gigantic scandal. Tim Davyy, the director of the BBC had to resign. The

CEO of news at the BBC had to resign. And the reason they had to resign is

they did precisely what these people have done to Ben Shapiro. Right? And this is a point I made when I I I wrote

an article and did a video about the the debate between Douglas Murray and Dave Smith on Joe Rogan is we've got to a

situation where everyone in the new media screams that the mainstream media has no standards while having none of

their own. Right. And unless we self-impose standards on ourselves and

also as you rightly say unless people realize that yes the gatekeepers are gone and yes that's great in some ways

but the flip side of that is well you as a consumer of information as a consumer of content you now have the ultimate

responsibility as a gatekeeper to your own mind you have to actually and look

unfortunately this is going to happen more and more and more with AI You're going to have to go out and make sure

that this thing that you are predisposed to believe is actually correct, is

actually true, is actually the full context. Absolutely. Because here's the thing,

you have to take responsibility. Like you said, you get the politicians that you deserve.

You get the public intellectuals you deserve. You get the YouTubers you deserve. There's a reason Tucker is

number one in for conservative media. It's because more people consume it. So

if you don't like that type of media, if you don't like that type of information,

then you give us money. Yeah. Exactly. Keep it going. Then you can't engage with it and you

can't assu consume that content because if that content wasn't profitable,

people wouldn't make it, of course. And it really is that simple. It's that simple. And here's another thing. It's

very easy in life to go around and point the fingers and go, you know what? You should be doing that and you should be

doing that and you shouldn't be saying that and you shouldn't be lying. What about you? What about you? It's easy to

point the finger at the BBC, mainstream media. Look, there are Nesta Peter F. Haha. Joke joke. Yeah, but what about

you? Do you are you rigorous with what you consume? Do you secretly enjoy

watching uh Candace Owens come out with the latest demented conspiracy theory, which we all know to be complete

nonsense? Are you sharing that? Are you talking Because if you are, then you're kind of

part of the problem, even though you don't want to admit it. And the reality is, we all have our part to play. And no

one's perfect. And part of the reason the mainstream media did those sneaky little tricks,

it's cuz they work. Exactly. And cuz maybe deep down you secretly like that and you engaged with

it. Yep. That's that's why, you know, the gatekeepers aren't coming back. And I think there's amazing things about that.

But ultimately, as consumers, it's the same with food, right? If you want to be healthy, you're going to have to be

pretty careful. I mean, one of the episodes we recorded that hasn't come out yet has a conversation with Ronda Patrick, Dr. Ronda Patrick about

microplastics, and we've totally changed like we've bas she basically ruined our lives,

mate. There's plastic everywhere. Yeah. She basically ruined our lives for I think very very little actual gain.

But we now changed our consumer behavior in terms of like we bought some some metal mugs that we use, stuff that my

wife's been banging on at on me for about 10 years about. Um, and speaking of Rhonda, we of course recorded that interview in LA. We also recorded a

conversation with Sam Harris in which we addressed the first time he was on the show.

Indeed, we did in great detail. He had a lot to say about President Trump that people are, I

think, going to find challenging. he had a lot to say about Joe Rogan which you know we had a a robust discussion about

um you know and that was interesting that was really really interesting we also sat down with Hassan Per now it was

earlier in the trip so we weren't able I think because because we hadn't spent as much time

communicating with him we did not go as hard at him as we did with Dave and you

know I wish in many ways Hassan came after Dave because I think we probably would have handled that in a more robust

way. But still, we had an interesting conversation in which he basically sort of he didn't say the words, "I'm a

communist," but he's currently in China celebrating being given Ma's little red

book. And he did say in our interview, "I don't have a problem being called a communist or something like that." So that was pretty intense. And then,

dear, oh dear, oh dear, we went to San Francisco and we recorded a very, very good conversation with Mabe who who runs

one of the companies there. But we also had a little look around and we talked

to a bunch of people in the world of AI. And you walking around San Francisco,

like a good third of the the cars there uh don't have human drivers. And here in

New York, we were walking home the other day and there was a gigantic billboard

from someone who I don't think has really thought this through which said, "Stop hiring humans. The age of the AI

employee is here." And they may be right, and in fact, I suspect they are right. But I don't think people

understand what's coming. Something we've learned doing this show

is that people's thoughts about a given issue often depend on where they get their news. That's why we use ground

news to see how the same story is reported across the political spectrum. For example, take the story about

Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson signing an executive order creating so-called ice

free zones. Follow along at ground.news/trigonometry using ground news. Straight away we can

quickly see that the story is being covered by sources across the board, but with more coverage from outlets on the

right. Scrolling down the page, ground news allows us to easily compare the headlines. We can see the Chicago Sun

Times, which is on the left, focused on the city's decision to declare municipal

buildings ice free. Meanwhile, The Hill, a centrist newspaper, simply stated that

Chicago's mayor signs ICE free zone executive order. But the New York Post

on the right went with White House blast sick Chicago mayor for aiding illegal

immigrant killers. Same news story, completely different takes. Ground News compiles these divergent perspectives in

one place. Another feature we use heavily at trigonometry is the blind spot feed, which highlights where

coverage is lopsided, lets you compare bias across the political spectrum, and shows what's being emphasized or

ignored. If you care about getting to the truth by seeing things from all angles, ground news is essential. Go to

ground.news/trigonometry and get 40% off their unlimited advantage plan. That's the plan we use.

That link again is ground.news/trigonometry. I found San Francisco as a place

 San Francisco Was Sobering

incredibly sobering because people might be surprised to know this, but I'm not

really up on the whole AI. I think it's not really something that I would call an area of expertise at all. I, you

know, the the close the most I've delved into it is being on Joe's show JRE where

he spoke to us about AI and afterwards and that got me pretty worried.

But then when we went for a dinner with some people from AI, some people who from the AI world, these were fairly

high high level people in AI. There's a mix of perspectives.

There's a mix of perspectives as there is in any industry as there is in any industry. But there is one extreme of perspectives

which I found particularly concerning if I'm being honest. Well, we had this discussion with McCabe in that

interview, which is like my big worry is not even people's desire to make money.

It's a bunch of people on the spectrum who are super excited about playing with this cool toy who I I don't think have

any understanding of the repercussions of the thing that they're playing with because they only see the upside. And

the upside of AI is enormous. It could transform the way we do health.

It could transform the way we defend ourselves. It could transform the way we uh communicate. It could transform not

having to have humans do dangerous, demeaning, boring, unfulfilling,

repetitive jobs. But in the process, we are opening a

Pandora's box. And this is the worrying thing is that when you talk to people, if they're

honest and you go, "What's coming down the line?" If they're honest, they go, "Well, we think this might happen.

But actually, we don't know." And you're going, "What? You, the person who's one of the forefront of this

particular technological innovation movement, you don't know what's coming next?"

Well, they're like, "Well, we think we do, but there's going to be on stuff that we don't." No one knows what's coming next.

And that is that's a very it's concerning. I'm going

to be honest with you. It's concerning. Look, man, truthfully, I've got to be honest. I I don't think anyone actually

knows whether there's going to be such a thing as a job 10 years from now. The world needs podcasters, mate.

I don't know if there's going to be podcasts 10 years from now. Now, you know, Joe and I disagreed about this when we were on his show, but you know,

let's be honest, like, as a podcaster, we all have an incentive to believe that we are necessary. But what? But but he

said that 20 minutes after playing us AI music that's better than any human music I've ever heard. If we don't need human

musicians, why do we need human podcasters? It doesn't make that much sense. No. Right now, I get it. You know, he's his

argument is well, you know, people like a perspective.

I I just I think the vast majority of people have absolutely no idea what's coming.

No. And the reality is maybe talking about it is kind of pointless because

you can't stop it. No, I I would push back on it because I

think what talking about it does is it helps people to understand and if you

helped to understand something you can strategize against it more effective. understand what like you said it

yourself the people running the industry don't understand but you will gain a greater

understanding the more you talk the more you investigate you will gain a greater level okay Francis we've gained a level of

understanding right you know I have a three-year-old son which career do you think is going to exist by the time he's

ready to go into the workplace based on your understanding I would say if I would say I would say

things like restoration restoration like restoring old buildings

Okay. Uh plumbing I would say to uh from the people that I

spoke to when I was in San Francisco and other people privately, they were like those are the types that are going to be

electrician. The things that you're going to be working with your skilled manual labor. Skilled manual labor.

All right. Well, everyone's got to become a plumber. Um what percentage of people are going to

be doing those jobs, man? Well, this is it. And you're going to look at driving jobs, right? Compare that to trucking.

Yeah. Well, trucking in the United States employs around 80,000 people. I think it's way more than that.

Driving jobs as a whole employ over half a million, right? And then you go and those are going to

be those jobs are primarily done by men. They're primarily done by men of a

certain age, younger men. What are we going to do with those men who don't have access to that type of job? Because

the last thing you want as a society is a group of young men who don't have a

job, are disenfranchised, and feel angry. That's when things start

getting a bit funky politically. That's when it starts getting worrying because young men directionless and

angry. That's how political movements start getting a bit more extreme, shall we just say. Well, of course, and you're seeing it

 Nick Fuentes And The Battle Of Ideas On The Right

already. You know, Nick Fuentes, who just people keep asking us, we've invited him on the show. He may he may

come on at some point. We'll handle it in exactly the way that we we handled Dave uh you know with strong robust

challenge of ideas. Um you're seeing that there was a whole big blow up with

the Heritage Foundation. There's there's basically a battle being fought on the American right over what it means to be

on the right, whether basically neofascist ideas are welcome in the movement. It's kind of a worrying

situation of itself, but I I don't think it's as ideological as it is a frustrated group of young men who've

been sh on their entire adult and teenage lives, told that they're the worst of everything. And it's

interesting because a friend of mine messaged me and said, "Well, you guys keep talking about, you know, men have had a bad deal." But

think back 30 or 40 years, boys in in the education system, if they didn't sit

still and didn't behave, they'd get beaten, right? They'd they'd get physically punished. And I I explained

to her because I I think the sexual dynamics here are important that for a

young man being hit is nowhere near as bad as being humiliated. And what the

generation of young men coming up now have been through is their entire life

they've heard that their group everyone else is great. If you're a black trans lesbian, you are on the pedestal and you

are to be celebrated. Right? If you are a young white man,

you are literally a piece of and you are at the bottom of the hierarchy and you need to step aside. And by the way, it's

important to say it's it may well be true that historically speaking, women have had a raw deal in society. I'm I

don't know if it's exactly true in the way that, you know, crazy feminists think it is, but I think there's some truth to that historically speaking. But

it was never the fault of 15year-old zoomers. No, they they neither created that system nor benefited from it.

They've grown up in the system where they've been the punching bag and the punchline.

And this to me was one of the main reasons why we pushed back against wokeness, progressivism, whatever it is

that you want to call that movement. Because for me there was even when they were talking about issues that I thought

actually, you've got a point, it was done in a spirit that I found profoundly

profoundly worrying because it was done with the air of somebody wanting revenge. And the problem is, as Gandhi

said, an eye for an eye, and the world will soon be blind. Because if you enact revenge on someone, particularly someone

who doesn't deserve it, hasn't done anything wrong, and you punish them,

particularly men, once they grow up, you know what they're going to want? They're going to want revenge.

And that's what you've got going on right now. Yeah. And it's like, all right, you've made me feel miserable. You've told me

that I'm not worth anything. You have demeaned me. You've smeared me. You've laughed at me. You've humiliated me. You

know what, princess? It's time for yours. And that's what's happened. And that's what we're seeing now. And that's why

you're seeing, I think, on the left and right, you know, movements that are becoming bigger and bigger that

literally have zero constructive agenda whatsoever. There's no constructive agenda to them. I mean, if you think

about this thing that's happening on the right really, and you know, this is a debate that's important to have, is the

people who are trying to push all these horrific ideas into the mainstream of the right, they are not helping the

Republicans who are currently in charge to deliver the things that the American

elector voted for. they are in fact making it easier for a Democrat to come in and to reopen the border as one of

the many other things that will happen in reaction to this. So what you have is you simply have groups of people who now

view pulling everything down and destroying everything as the only thing worth doing.

And there's many reasons for that. Number one, because you get a sheer visceral thrill out of destroying

something. Everyone does. You kick in the window. that gets you get a little you get a

little bit of excitement. I've never done it, man. I'm I'm middle class. But, you know, you do something, you

kick in a window, whatever, you feel you get a little bit of adrenaline, you get a little burst. But there's something

more profound to it. It's so much easier to pull something down, to break

something, to desecrate, to mock, than it is to build something up, to create

something, to be of genuine worth in the world. Because when you build something as you know that we do as many other

people do or even people who go to work every day and they do a job to the best of their ability, it's hard. It's not

glamorous. Even people going, "Oh, but you're on YouTube." 98.9 of the percent

of this, there is not glamour to it. It is a grind like it every other business.

And it's hard and you get up and you go, "Right, we've got to sort this out. We got to do this. You got to be on the phone to them. We've got to go here.

you've got to do because that's we're victims because that's what it needs. That's

what it needs. But we talked about this in a conversation with Dana like we've been at this for seven and a half years and

almost the entirety of that time you spend forgive me for the metaphor but I think it's exactly appropriate eating.

Yeah. Hearing no no I mean Dana himself we've been trying to get him on the show for like two years and he's a busy guy. The

fact that he came on now is like a testament both to his openness but also to our tenacity and trying to get him

on. And every other interview we've done, it's been a process of every single guest almost is a process of

either you have to work really hard to get them on or you have to work really hard to get big enough that they want to

come on themselves. So it's non-stop hard work. It's a lot easier to just

complain. It's a lot easier to go on the internet, be incendury, and say, "Oh, we

should do this. Burn this. Pull this down. Get rid of this. This person is bad. This person is

wrong. This person is evil." And look, we've criticized a lot of people, but we're always coming at it from a constructive place. What we're trying to

say is we're brilliant. We are. We're brilliant. Thank you. By the way, spending more and more time

 Americans And Sarcasm

in America, I start to realize that all these sarcastic jokes, they don't get it. I don't think a lot of them get it. So

if you're American, we're not saying we're brilliant. What? No. What we're saying is we are brilliant, but we're also British, so we pretend that we're

not saying it. I remember there was one quite awkward moment a few months ago when I was like,

"So yeah, we're brilliant." And this guy went, "Yeah, you are." And I went, "No, we're not." I mean, oh god, no. And they

just like that awkward Britishness thing came and it kind of Yeah. Anyway, but and what the reason we

approach a Dana interview the way we did and I hope people get this is trying to

send a positive message to young men to go look you can still achieve. There are

things that you can do if you strive, if you believe, if you have ambition, if you know where you want to go, if you're

prepared to work really hard, you can achieve something. Don't go down the

other path because while it may feel good at the time, it's like scratching

eczema. It may feel good at the time, but you're it's only going to make you feel worse. It's only going to inflame.

And I don't think young men are going to particularly listen to us if I'm honest or or even to Dana necessarily. But what

they will find out as time goes on is just like being woke wasn't fulfilling.

And if you look at woke people, they're absolutely miserable. Mhm. The people who are going down the route

of bitterness and resentment on the right, they will discover that it doesn't lead you anywhere. It doesn't

lead you to the place that makes you happy. It doesn't like look look at some of the people who are at the top of

this. None of them have a family. None of them have kids. None of them have a a partner. None of them have the things

that actually make life meaningful. I mean, before we started the conversation with Dana, we talked about how kids are

the best thing ever, right? And and anyone who who becomes a parent will tell you now look kids don't make you

happy in and of themselves what kids tend to do. I saw a great post from our former guest Sarah Hayden who said what

kids do is they they expand the range of emotions you get to feel. So on the

upside you now have a levels of happiness that were unattainable previously. On the downside you have

levels of you know horror and fear and misery that also weren't available to

you potentially. But meaning comes from from the connections you make with other people, from having a family, from

 Charlie Kirk Showed That Meaning Comes From Connections To Other People

having friends. It doesn't come from being angry uh and sort of attacking

people that don't you don't agree with. Uh it comes from building things. I mean, this is one of the things I think

that made Charlie Kirk such a special person in many people's eyes is he built an institution that was actually

affecting change in the world in in the way that he believed in. Whereas, if all

you're doing is tearing things down, you're going to very quickly find that it's an incredibly shallow, miserable,

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today. Yeah. And I hope young men start to

realize that because we I we say it all the time, but we can't carry on like this. If the people in your life, if the

people who you follow are destructive, are angry and miserable, who are highly conspiratorial, they're not going to

lead you to where you want to be. Because who look as somebody, everyone can have a drink, who's taught kids. I

remember when people were saying to me, oh, some kids, you know, they don't want to learn, they don't want to do. No one

wants to be a failure. There is no single person in life who goes, you know what I want to do? I want to fail at

everything. I, you know, my dreams, which we've all got, I don't want to achieve them. I don't want to have

money. I don't want to have a nice house. I don't want to have a partner or a spouse that I love.

That's not true. Everybody wants to succeed. And what's really important is that we actually realize that if you

want to ex succeed, you need to have a positive message. You need to be inspired. You need to be inspirational

to others. That's the only way to achieve things. That's the only way to drive yourself forward and by doing that

drive other people forward around you. And then if there's enough of a chain reaction being able to mobilize your

town, then a city, then a your district, your state, and then a country.

But the other the other way, if we go down this other path, this will lead to a desperate, dark, broken place.

And we just can't have it. We can't have it because if nothing else, for yourselves and your

family, do you want to live in that? I don't. I don't. Well, I mean, that's part of the one of the problems I think for for the young

people who who young men in particular who feel this frustration is they don't have a family and they don't have kids

and they're not attached to anything and they're just bitter and resentful. But it just it's just not a sustainable

thing. It's not going to work for you if if that's the place you and so you're going

to have to uh dig yourself out of that um and realize that this isn't leading

you anywhere that you actually deep down want to be. Um, I mean another thing

 Ben Shapiro And The Housing Discussion

that you know this is something we talked about with Ben in our conversation that's happening is obviously there's a far-left movement

that's also happening and you know one of the things you and I have been talking about for a long time

and trying by the way to get people on the right to acknowledge is that affordability particularly of housing is

a gigantic issue and you can't skirt around that. Now look, I think Ben made

a fantastic point that has been badly misrepresented. He said if you want to deal with affordability, you have to

change the policies. But if the policies aren't going to change, you have to in America, in

American history, actually the seeking of opportunity elsewhere is literally America.

Yeah. Right. And look at the content creators in our space. Uh let's take a look, go

down the list. Joe Rogan moved from California to Austin. Why? Because he didn't like what was happening in California. He didn't sit

in his basement and whine, did he? Dave Rubin, uh, Ben Shapiro, they've all

moved. Uh, lot lots and lots and lots of people. I mean, there's lots of people in Austin who have moved to Austin.

There's lot, you know, other people are in Scottsdale, Arizona. like uh the

reality is that the the if if if politicians feel that you are captive in

the city in which you live, they're not going to change anything. No. And no matter how many times you elect,

you know, far-left socialist or communist or whatever who promise you free stuff, they're not going to change anything. They're not going to make

housing more affordable because the only way to make housing more affordable is to build more housing. Like President Trump's come out with this 50-year

mortgage. Yeah. Okay. That's going to help some people buy a house that can't buy a house now. But that's also going to massively inflate prices. And then a

generation from now, or not a generation, a few years from now, again, you're going to be in this position where fewer and fewer people can buy a

house because as we discussed with Dave and this is where we really agreed is asset inflation uh is making people who

don't have assets incredibly incredibly poor. And there's graphs uh including in that recent video I did just showing

this. Now, if people need to understand if this does not get addressed, you are going to

have absolute chaos in politics because if young people can't pair up, they

can't settle down, they can't have kids, they're going to burn the whole thing down. And we're starting to see that now.

Yeah, we're starting to see that now. And what one thing that I find particularly uh

actually really frustrating and I'm going to be honest is the right the right the way they talk about this where

they talk about people who voted for Zoran Mandani and they're like oh they're stupid they're ignorant they're

lazy whatever else and it's like hang on a second hang on a second you got upset

when people on the left said the same thing about Trump supporters when Trump was addressing very real

issues that people in blue collar jobs for left behind towns in the rust belt. We all

know that we all know the narratives when he was talking to them and you were angry when the left criticized and

mocked them. But now you're mocking people who are moving toward the populist left. Can you not see that

there's actually more in common with both sides than you might want to pretend? I would quibble

with your analogy a little bit, although I think there's a lot of truth to it. But for look, uh, President Trump was

going to close the border and did. Zoramani is not going to solve New York's problems.

I'm talking more about how people particularly talk about supporters. Yeah. Yeah. That's not helpful. Of course, it's not.

But I I do think there's a there's a uh a qualitative difference between these two things. And it's not cuz I'm pro

Trump and anti-Mandi, although, you know, I'm no fan of Mandani, of course. Um, but yeah, I no, I take your point. I

mean, look, demonizing millions of people for having a different voting preference to you is never smart because

you're not going to win any of them over. That said, I mean, look, there's a lot of there's a lot that's been written about Maani's election. One of the

things that's been pointed out is like Mamani only did well with people who weren't born in America

as a on a group basis. And that's another thing which is you know there are there do seem to be quite a lot of

 Lots Of People In Our Countries Want To Make Our Countries More Like The Countries They Came From

people in all of our countries in the west who've come from other places and instead of embracing the things that

made the west great they seem to for some reason want to make

our countries more like the countries they've come from which I think you and I who've either come or whose parents

have come from other places just really struggle to understand and one of the great interviews we recorded on this

trip was actually about your family's ancestry and country which was

Venezuela. We had this great guy called Daniel D. Martino on the show. You absolutely smashed it talking about

Venezuela. Yeah. And to me that was one of the highlights of the trip because look, I

don't mind jokes are jokes. Fine. But when you see a country perpetually used

as a punchline and but people never engage, they never actually talk about it honestly. And I think it's really

important for people to actually understand what socialism genuinely means. What does it mean to have a

country that's socialist? What does it mean to have a country that is should actually be the Dubai of South America

because we're we're richer than Dubai? We're technically could be richer than Saudi Arabia if we're run properly. But

we have socialism and as a result of that everything was decimated. The

country was plunged into poverty. 9 million people left. 9 million people.

And it's the re one of the reasons I'm so proud of it was because of the way we handled the conversation because Danielle was magnificent in the way he

put forward and explained what happened in Venezuela, but also because it's, you

know, we're so far away now from socialism in what many people experience

that to them it's like they're rediscovering this new idea. Hey, you know what? Maybe the world can be fairer. you know, there won't be poor

people. We'll all be equal and no, that's not how it works. It's a magic trick.

You get shown something and you think, "Isn't this brilliant?" And then you get the reveal at the end of it. And the

reveal is there is no freedom. There's no free speech. If you criticize the government,

you're going to be in jail. And you know what? We're all going to be plunged into desperate, miserable poverty.

Sounds like Britain, mate. Well, yeah. And but that's the thing

that we they still have here in America which is and it's why I loved our conversation with Dana and it's why I

loved the coming here and having conversations. It's because there is still optimism here

and that is so important and it's so powerful and I know it's what you love about being here. Of course it's fantastic and you know

every time we come here it's not just about having great conversations with fascinating people. It's also it changes

us every time we're here. We become better as interviewers. we have better conversations like the way we would have

interviewed Hassan Per if we interviewed him after Dave Smith

would have been very different and that's because Dave made us better as interviewers. Yeah. You know the things we engage with here

makes us better as interviewers. I and these might seem like minor details to people but for fans of the show these

probably are interesting observations. like Brandon Tatum, Officer Tatum, when we had on,

he spoke for 35 minutes uninterrupted and answering our first questions. I

dare you to find one interviewer on the internet who would let somebody speak for 35 minutes and say nothing.

And the reason we do that is when we've learned that when you have someone who really has something something to say, a

story to tell, you just get out of the way. Mhm. And when you have someone who needs a little help or maybe just speaks in shorter

sentences or maybe you know you quite haven't quite found a way to get in uh then you then then you then we've got to

jump in and do our job in a different way. And by the way we're talking about all the serious stuff. We have some

hilarious episodes recorded in this trip. I mean we we had Christina P James Macan Jeff Dyke who was just absolutely

incredible. Greg Gutfield as well. They all smashed it. Those are really interesting but very funny conversations. Um, and that's again

another thing, you know, it sounds like we're blowing smoke up our own asses here, but like we've got so much range

in the types of we can do funny, we can do serious, we can do uh educational. I

mean, we our conversation with Scott Galloway about masculinity, our conversation with Nick Freightus about

masculinity, our conversation with James Sex, the divorce lawyer, it's one of the

most powerful things that we've ever experienced sitting across from somebody because he is such a great speaker and

has so many interesting things to say, so balanced, but also was willing to go to places emotionally that very often

 We Love America

people clam up. So, you know, being here is transformative and every time we come here, it transforms. That's why we love

America. We do. We love America because the ambition, the talent, the talent here is

incredible. You just, there's some people who just walk in like Daniel who just come in and they smash it from

beginning to end and you go, you're not even 30. You're not even

I didn't like him for that reason. Too good, too young. you know, you're not even 30 and the

talent here is incredible. The conversations that you can have here. And you know what I think, and this is

good, people are going to roll their eyes, but I do think I think part of it is the First Amendment. I think is they have a culture of free

speech. And when you have a culture of free speech, it automatically makes everything that little bit lighter

because, you know, that's the culture. So you can, it's like Dana said in our interview in the

UFC, you can go out and you can make a comment about politics and you can be as batshit as you want, but it's the first

amendment. It's America. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled not to like it, but that's life.

Well, that is the attitude. And one of the things we explored with a lot of people is the sort of proclivity for conspiracy. And we talked to a few

comedians about that. You know, why do people so interested in that? It's I think that's probably the flip side

in that when every opinion is accepted, you know, people are going to come up with some pretty wacky opinions.

Yeah. Um and you know, it's an interesting place to be because of course right now

that conspiratorialness on the right, I think, is a real threat to the right's

electoral success. I just I don't think the American

general public based on our conversations on the people that we speak to, I don't think they're into that. They might enjoy watching

somebody, but when it becomes the central thing of the political movement,

you know, I I just I don't see that as a winning strategy, particularly when you're bringing in very toxic ideas that

a lot of people in this country, thank God, still have a natural aversion to. Look, you've absolutely nailed it. And I

think people in politics and I think people in our space and and the YouTubers, I think we all need to

remember something. Look, we're all highly political people in this little space. And look, that's fine. And we're

obsessed with politics and that's what we do and that's what we talk about, but there's something bigger at play here.

And that's America and the West. And by that I mean the soccer mom taking her

kids to practice. The go the dad getting up every day going to do a job that he

probably doesn't like but he does it because he's got a family and then he comes back. The young people who want to

get ahead with their lives and they just want an opportunity and a chance to succeed. The guy looking at the girl

going, I want to marry her and one day be able to have kids. This is more important than people online talking and

be trying to be provocative. And we all need to remember that what we do bleeds

out into society. And we have a responsibility. You have a responsibility not to indulge in these

conspiracies theories, not to be extreme because it it affects people in a way

that is incredibly profound. to those people. You may feel like you're just ranting to a camera. You're not. People

are watching. They're ingesting the stuff. And that's what concerns me if I'm being honest.

Well, we will see how it all plays out. Uh, everyone has a a small role to play in it. Uh, we are going to go to

triggerpod.co.uk where our fans are going to ask you ask us questions or rather we will take their questions and

ask them of each other. Uh, so head on over there now. Uh, and if you're not already a subscriber, we do think you're

morally uh inferior. Do you think you help keep each other

honest? And how much do you think the fact that you somewhat balance each other out has contributed to your success?

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